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To: rmlew
the fact that the Romans killed Jesus and thousands of other threats to Roman rule of Judea is irrelevent.

Not quite.............







NIV Matthew 27:17-25
 17.  So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, "Which one do you want me to release to you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?"
 18.  For he knew it was out of envy that they had handed Jesus over to him.
 19.  While Pilate was sitting on the judge's seat, his wife sent him this message: "Don't have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him."
 20.  But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.
 21.  "Which of the two do you want me to release to you?" asked the governor.   "Barabbas," they answered.
 22.  "What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called Christ?" Pilate asked.   They all answered, "Crucify him!"
 23.  "Why? What crime has he committed?" asked Pilate.   But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify him!"
 24.  When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. "I am innocent of this man's blood," he said. "It is your responsibility!"
 25.  All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"
 
NIV Mark 15:9-14
 9.  "Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?" asked Pilate,
 10.  knowing it was out of envy that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him.
 11.  But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead.
 12.  "What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?" Pilate asked them.
 13.  "Crucify him!" they shouted.
 14.  "Why? What crime has he committed?" asked Pilate.   But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify him!"
 
NIV Luke 23:20-24
 20.  Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again.
 21.  But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"
 22.  For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him."
 23.  But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed.
 24.  So Pilate decided to grant their demand.
 
 
NIV John 18
 29.  So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against this man?"
 30.  "If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over to you."
 31.  Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law."   "But we have no right to execute anyone," the Jews objected.
 32.  This happened so that the words Jesus had spoken indicating the kind of death he was going to die would be fulfilled.
 33.  Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?"
 34.  "Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?"
 35.  "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?"
 36.  Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
 37.  "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.   Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
 38.  "What is truth?" Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, "I find no basis for a charge against him.

128 posted on 01/17/2002 4:28:11 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie
Elsie,
I don't want to start a holy war here. However, the accounts in the NT were hardly objective. They were written, in part to differentiate Christians from Jews.
This was at a time when the Romans were represing Jews and later slaughtering them during the rebellion. The Christians chose to differentiate themselves for survival.
Later, when Christianity spread to the Hellenistic settlers in the levant and to Romans, it became useful to ensure that the Jews and not the Romans were blamed for the death of Jesus.
The truth is that the accounts are misleading. Jesus was not tried or punished according to Jewish law. Jesus was executed on Passover, when such punishments are banned by the Torah.
Assuming the Sanhedrin tried Jesus (unlikely as this is absent from Roman records), they were not acting freely. Herod, a Nabatean convert, had executed the Sanhedrin when they had poreviously ruled against him. The puppet Sanhedrin was not ruling on the Law, the Torah, or for the people. They were rulling according to the dictates of the non-Judean King who ruled at he behest of the Romans and the Hellenized settlers.
If a crowd of Herodian crooneys had Jesus killed, it is hardly the fault of the Jews of that time, much less ours.
The fact is that a Roman puppet-king had his puppet court convict a man who claimed to be the true king (and thus a threat to his and Roman rule) and handed him over to the Roman governor. It seems to me that hte guilty parties are :
1) The Romans.
2) The illegitimate Roman citizen and non-Judean king
3) The Hellenized Jews who he installed in religious positions, despite their contempt for the Torah.


I don't want to start a fight. Facts are annoying things to fundamentalists, but they remain true.
156 posted on 01/17/2002 4:39:23 PM PST by rmlew
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