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FLASHBACK: China uses computers from U.S. illegally; Nuclear facility simulates blasts
drudgereport ^ | June 27,2000 (January 3, 2002) | Bill Gertz (Washington Times)

Posted on 01/03/2002 2:49:00 PM PST by OKCSubmariner

China's main nuclear weapons center is using U.S. supercomputers illegally to simulate warhead detonations without actual underground tests, The Washington Times has learned.

U.S.-origin high-performance computers are being used at the Chinese Academy of Engineering Physics, the main nuclear weapons facility in Beijing. The facility is viewed by officials as China's version of Los Alamos National Laboratory, according to Clinton administration intelligence officials.

The use of U.S. supercomputers - with computational speeds of billions of operations per second or faster - at the nuclear facility was outlined in a report classified "top-secret" and circulated among senior U.S. national security officials last month, said the officials who have seen it. They discussed some elements of the report on the condition of anonymity. Disclosure of the use of U.S. computers to help develop China's nuclear arms comes as the Clinton administration and Congress are considering new measures to loosen exports of American-made high-performance computers.

An amendment to the current defense authorization bill President Clinton signed in February further relaxed export rules on advanced computers, allowing U.S. manufacturers to begin selling faster systems on Aug. 15.

Officials did not identify the U.S. manufacturers of the systems or how they were obtained.

Supercomputer sales have been restricted because they are crucial elements for designing and developing nuclear weapons, missiles and advanced conventional arms, according to defense officials.

Additionally, the U.S. intelligence community reported last month that China is expanding a nuclear research facility at Mianyang. The so-called "Science City" there is working on both nuclear weapons and civilian energy research, the intelligence officials said.

The reported supercomputer use at the nuclear facility is the third time China's government has been detected diverting U.S.-origin computers to defense facilities.

In 1997, China agreed to return a Silicon Graphics supercomputer that was illegally diverted through a Hong Kong front company to a Chinese defense facility.

A White House National Security Council spokesman declined to comment, citing a policy of not talking about intelligence matters.

A U.S. intelligence official who was not familiar with the report said that it has been difficult for U.S. intelligence agencies to learn whether China is using complete U.S. advanced computers, or whether they are using a combination of U.S. components and homemade systems.

According to Clinton administration officials, the president hopes to dramatically ease export control on high-powered computers.

An amendment to the current defense authorization bill sponsored by Sen. Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, would make it easier for the president to change the export rules by reducing a congressional notification period from 180 days to 30 days.

The argument of some officials who support the changes is that the systems are so widely available that controlling them is futile.

Other officials who oppose the decontrol note that the United States produced the best and fastest supercomputers and that they should not be exported to countries that could use them against the United States, like China.

A Senate national security aide said the administration "failed completely" to win Chinese government cooperation in checking on the end use of U.S. computers sold during the 1990s.

"That's why the Chinese know that they can use these computers with impunity," the aide said, noting that the relaxation of controls "has been a disaster for U.S. national security."

Stephen Bryen, a Pentagon export-control official during the Reagan administration, said he predicted in the early 1990s that U.S. supercomputers would be used by China for developing advanced nuclear weapons.

"That's been the great worry about transfers of supercomputers," he said. "That they would be able to design a new generation of smaller warheads that can fit on smaller missiles or which can be MIRVed" - multiple, independently targetable re-entry vehicles, or multiple warheads.

Mr. Bryen said in an interview that the United States was able to radically reduce the number of actual underground nuclear tests needed for developing new warheads, from several hundred to about five.

"This is not good news for us because the Chinese can do a lot of this covertly," he said. "It will be hard for us to know their capabilities, and we will have a difficult time understanding the threat."

The report by the special House committee that investigated Chinese spying and technology acquisition stated that there is limited information on China's use of U.S. supercomputers. However, the report said that the panel "judges that the People's Republic of China has been using high performance computers for nuclear weapons applications."

The report stated that under relaxed export rules, China may have purchased as many as 603 high-speed computers between 1996 and 1998.

Following the illegal diversion to defense use of several U.S. supercomputers by Russia and China, Congress in 1998 passed a law requiring tighter restrictions.

The law required exporters to notify the government before selling supercomputers to nations like China and Russia.

The U.S. computer industry opposed the requirement and has lobbied instead for further relaxation of controls as computer computational capabilities increased.

In July, Mr. Clinton loosened the restrictions further to allow exports of machines capable of 6.5 billion operations per second, and in February announced he will allow sales of computers that carry out 12.5 billion operations per second.

According to the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, the Chinese Academy of Engineering Physics was identified in June 1997 as an "entity of concern," a designation that warned American exporters that the institute was involved in defense programs.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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The Chinese will be using the Bush newly approved US computers to run the US nuclear design and simulation legacy codes that Win Ho Lee is alleged to have given them as reported in the COx report. My opinion is that HW Bush helped China get the legacy codes. Wen Ho Lee's wife worked directly for the CIA and FBI for many years. GW Bush is now selling the rope (high speed computers) to China to hang the US. I guess he is just finishing what his father started.

Please see this article posted today on FR: Bush Eases Computer Exports

Posted on 1/3/02 8:43 AM Pacific by bluetoad

Link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/601005/posts?page=12

1 posted on 01/03/2002 2:49:00 PM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: kevin,onedoug,Fred Mertz,Chapita, ChaseR,ratcat,golitely,flamefront,rightwing2,kattracks,JohnHuan
BUMP!!
2 posted on 01/03/2002 2:49:46 PM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: Wallaby, Uncle Bill, Paul Ross,Orion78,Pericles,aristeides,thinden,Plummz
FYI
3 posted on 01/03/2002 2:55:57 PM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
Supercomputer sales have been restricted because they are crucial elements for designing and developing nuclear weapons, missiles and advanced conventional arms, according to defense officials.

Interesting to see what Bush spends his political capital on when his polls are at 90% approval.

4 posted on 01/03/2002 3:02:11 PM PST by Nephi
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To: backup
FYI
5 posted on 01/03/2002 3:04:51 PM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
Nothing prevents China or anyone else from buying Pentium 4's and building a beowulf cluster. Bush's order allowing the export of computers which perform less than 190,000 MTOPS has zero effect on national security. Judging from their history, the Chinese are not going to buy a top of the line IBM or Cray mainframe anyway. They will (probably have) build a cluster for one tenth to one third the cost.
6 posted on 01/03/2002 3:11:12 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
You mimic the whining socialist claims of liberal geeks who claim info wants to be free when you say that.

All that about beowolf clusters is admittedly and obviously true. But what all this is about is really whether the U.S. is to allow assembled systems perhaps fully integrated with optimized software to cross the border. Examples are usually things like SGI Origins or Crays.

A cluster does not a simulator make.

Would you say the U.S. should allow integrated systems to wander across the borders?

7 posted on 01/03/2002 3:28:22 PM PST by flamefront
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To: OKCSubmariner
Maybe this is the balance between what China wanted for "hosting" our EP-3 crew, and what they got.
8 posted on 01/03/2002 3:28:31 PM PST by onedoug
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To: OKCSubmariner
Just send us the computers, mr. crinton, and we will make a generous donation to the foundation of your choice. We PROMISE not to use these computers to build weapons of mass destruction.

Why is it that lib administrations always trust our national security to promises and pieces of paper?

9 posted on 01/03/2002 3:31:49 PM PST by copycat
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To: OKCSubmariner
Clinton: "Here, you can have these supercomputers . . . You just can't use them to do weapons research" -- *WINK*, *WINK*, *NUDGE*, *NUDGE* . . .

When, oh when, will Clinton be brought up on treason charges? If it weren't for him, the Chinese would still be trying to figure out how to adapt keyboards to Chinese characters.

10 posted on 01/03/2002 3:40:58 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: flamefront
You mimic the whining socialist claims of liberal geeks who claim info wants to be free when you say that.

Actually the socialists agree with you. Nuclear Threat Initiative : Global Security Newswire is a $250 million dollar Ted Turner peacenik creation and they are against dropping the restrictions. Euro-trash socialists are also upset with Bush's decision. None of these people want America to be competitive. They want export restrictions exactly because they are no longer needed.

11 posted on 01/03/2002 3:43:44 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
Your posts here - right on mark. Thanks LarryLied/bttt
12 posted on 01/03/2002 6:00:44 PM PST by ChaseR
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To: ChaseR
Thanks. Some people want Bush to tuck them in bed and tell them nice stories about how we can stop our enemies from getting super computers.
13 posted on 01/03/2002 6:07:26 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: Nephi
Bump.
14 posted on 01/03/2002 6:59:34 PM PST by dr_who
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To: LarryLied
Yes, but is clustering adequate for doing nuclear bomb simulations? It's my understanding that clustering can't handle all of the kinds of problems you normally use a supercomputer for.
15 posted on 01/03/2002 7:10:04 PM PST by dr_who
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To: flamefront
A cluster does not a simulator make. Would you say the U.S. should allow integrated systems to wander across the borders?

What do you mean by "integrated" systems? Do you mean big mainframes or "prepacked" clustered systems with an SGI/IBM brand name on them (perhaps this is an example?)? I'm sure cray can use all the customers it can get, if it's still in existence.
16 posted on 01/03/2002 7:23:37 PM PST by dr_who
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To: flamefront
otoh, if the issue is whether we should be exporting "optimized" software or not, this really is a tempest in a teapot (unless you're the one who's trying to buy or sell the software). The US has enough problems with software piracy inside of our borders as well as outside. The existence of the WTO isn't going to keep China from running software that's publicly available througout the U.S, sorry. But I don't see where "optimized" software really would give a rogue state a real advantage like "optimized hardware" would in the first place. Ask any good programmer and they'll probably tell you that there's nothing really "new under the sun" as far as software goes, and that's why so many of them dislike the idea of software patents. And what if a freely distributable OS like Linux happened to be more "optimized" than Windows? The only effect of export restrictions in such a case would be to take away some of Microsoft's revenue. General export restrictions on cryptography are just as stupid, especially when you want to encourage the use of a particular "standard" for commerce purposes. If there's some software that the government wants to keep "bottled up", it ought to be kept on a few secured machines, accessible by only a few trustworthy people, and it certainly shouldn't be available "over the counter" anywhere, just like any classified information.
17 posted on 01/03/2002 8:08:59 PM PST by dr_who
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


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