Pope John Paul II's World Day of Peace Message

http://www.vatican.va/ ^ | 12.08.01 | Pope John Paul II

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

All I asked is for decency. That was it. You make it clear you have no decency for me. Okay. I got it. Thank you for your time. 319 posted on 1/3/02 6:14 PM Pacific by JMJ333

I'm prepared to offer decency -- No profanity, No personal attacks, No racism or violence in posts.

What I am not prepared to offer is the renunciation of my position before debate has even begun.

Follow me through on this.

The Calvinist Faith requires of the Calvinist a religious duty to be intolerant of Communion with Apostasy in the Church of Christ.

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Ephesians 5: 6-11 -- Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

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Now, the Biblical term for Communion with Apostasy is "spiritual fornication" (or "whoring after false gods").

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Ezekiel 20: 29-31 -- Then I said unto them, What is the high place whereunto ye go? And the name whereof is called Bamah unto this day. Wherefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Are ye polluted after the manner of your fathers? and commit ye whoredom after their abominations? For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be enquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be enquired of by you.

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Now, this is a serious charge, so it should never be levelled lightly, of course.

But by the same token, it is the doctrine of the Bible, and as Calvinists, we are not permitted to be ashamed of the Bible. It's against our religion!!

Now, as concerns matters of state, anyone can worship any god they like. But as concerns the Church of Christ, if by "decency" you mean that you consider it indecent of Calvinists to execute our religious duty to maintain an "intolerant" attitude towards the worship of false gods in the Church of Christ, and insist that we enter the debate with a "tolerant" attitude towards the worship of false gods... you are denying us the right to uphold our position before we even enter the discussion.

In essence, your definition of "decency" is not one of "NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts"... that knid of decency, Calvinists are cool with.

Your definition of "decency" is that we must enter the discussion with a "tolerant" attitude towards the worship of false gods in the Church, for "intolerance" towards the worship of false gods in the Church offends you.

As such, you do not deny the rectitude of our position;
Rather, you deny that we have a right to present our position.

[the_doc]

All I asked is for decency. That was it. You make it clear you have no decency for me. Okay. I got it. Thank you for your time.

JMJ, we DISAGREE with you--AND VERY SERIOUSLY SO. We are genuinely CONCERNED about folks like you. We think you need to KNOW this. We think OTHERS need to know this, too.

Your insinuation that OrthodoxPresbyterian is mean-spirited is not appropriate. We are trying to be civil, but it would appear that that's not good enough for you.

Chill out, please.

[George W. Bush]

That's why defend the Magisterium. It wouldn't be necessary at all, of course, were it not for folks like you. =)

I wrote a very long reply and decided not to post it in the interests of peace. I've said enough for one day.

FRegards.

[the_doc]

As such, you do not deny the rectitude of our position;
Rather, you deny that we have a right to present our position.

You just hit the nail on the HEAD.

[George W. Bush]

Is there anyone here who would like to reasonably discuss the Popes message in it's entirety?

Actually, I would, having re-read it more carefully and finding much more that I object to. But I'm afraid it might really start a flame war. Previously, I only took exception to the equating of fundamentalists with terrorists and this upcoming ecumenical lovefest with those who deny Christ. Now I see much more that I find very troubling from a foreign policy perspective as well as a religious perspective. Maybe I should just let it rest. What do you think? Want to talk about "repaying evil with evil", the implicit criticism of Israel (even in the title), or JP II's call for Islamic and Jewish and Christian leaders to repudiate terrorism? I suspect it might get too heated again.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Previously, I only took exception to the equating of fundamentalists with terrorists and this upcoming ecumenical lovefest with those who deny Christ.

The implications of which bring to mind certain passages of Revelation.....

[RnMomof7]

OP wasn't being "personal" JMJ he was explaining how Calvinists handle sin and heresy . Remember I told you come over to a Calvinist thread to visit...they are upfront .

[conservonator]

Is there anyone here who would like to reasonably discuss the Popes message in it's entirety?

What fun would that be?;-)

[George W. Bush]

What fun would that be?;-)

Oh, you are a troublemaker... ; )

[conservonator]

Oh, you are a troublemaker... ; )

Can't help it, totally depraved don't you know! :)