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Pope John Paul II's World Day of Peace Message
http://www.vatican.va/ ^ | 12.08.01 | Pope John Paul II

Posted on 12/31/2001 5:44:20 PM PST by victim soul

NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE
NO JUSTICE WITHOUT FORGIVENESS

MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE JOHN PAUL II

FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PEACE, 1 JANUARY 2002

1. The World Day of Peace this year is being celebrated in the shadow of the dramatic events of 11 September last. On that day, a terrible crime was committed: in a few brief hours thousands of innocent people of many ethnic backgrounds were slaughtered. Since then, people throughout the world have felt a profound personal vulnerability and a new fear for the future. Addressing this state of mind, the Church testifies to her hope, based on the conviction that evil, the mysterium iniquitatis, does not have the final word in human affairs. The history of salvation, narrated in Sacred Scripture, sheds clear light on the entire history of the world and shows us that human events are always accompanied by the merciful Providence of God, who knows how to touch even the most hardened of hearts and bring good fruits even from what seems utterly barren soil. This is the hope which sustains the Church at the beginning of 2002: that, by the grace of God, a world in which the power of evil seems once again to have taken the upper hand will in fact be transformed into a world in which the noblest aspirations of the human heart will triumph, a world in which true peace will prevail.

Peace: the work of justice and love

2. Recent events, including the terrible killings just mentioned, move me to return to a theme which often stirs in the depths of my heart when I remember the events of history which have marked my life, especially my youth. The enormous suffering of peoples and individuals, even among my own friends and acquaintances, caused by Nazi and Communist totalitarianism, has never been far from my thoughts and prayers. I have often paused to reflect on the persistent question: how do we restore the moral and social order subjected to such horrific violence? My reasoned conviction, confirmed in turn by biblical revelation, is that the shattered order cannot be fully restored except by a response that combines justice with forgiveness. The pillars of true peace are justice and that form of love which is forgiveness.

3. But in the present circumstances, how can we speak of justice and forgiveness as the source and condition of peace? We can and we must, no matter how difficult this may be; a difficulty which often comes from thinking that justice and forgiveness are irreconcilable. But forgiveness is the opposite of resentment and revenge, not of justice. In fact, true peace is “the work of justice” (Is 32:17). As the Second Vatican Council put it, peace is “the fruit of that right ordering of things with which the divine founder has invested human society and which must be actualized by man thirsting for an ever more perfect reign of justice” (Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes, 78). For more than fifteen hundred years, the Catholic Church has repeated the teaching of Saint Augustine of Hippo on this point. He reminds us that the peace which can and must be built in this world is the peace of right order—tranquillitas ordinis, the tranquillity of order (cf. De Civitate Dei, 19,13).

True peace therefore is the fruit of justice, that moral virtue and legal guarantee which ensures full respect for rights and responsibilities, and the just distribution of benefits and burdens. But because human justice is always fragile and imperfect, subject as it is to the limitations and egoism of individuals and groups, it must include and, as it were, be completed by the forgiveness which heals and rebuilds troubled human relations from their foundations. This is true in circumstances great and small, at the personal level or on a wider, even international scale. Forgiveness is in no way opposed to justice, as if to forgive meant to overlook the need to right the wrong done. It is rather the fullness of justice, leading to that tranquillity of order which is much more than a fragile and temporary cessation of hostilities, involving as it does the deepest healing of the wounds which fester in human hearts. Justice and forgiveness are both essential to such healing.

It is these two dimensions of peace that I wish to explore in this message. The World Day of Peace this year offers all humanity, and particularly the leaders of nations, the opportunity to reflect upon the demands of justice and the call to forgiveness in the face of the grave problems which continue to afflict the world, not the least of which is the new level of violence introduced by organized terrorism. The reality of terrorism

4. It is precisely peace born of justice and forgiveness that is under assault today by international terrorism. In recent years, especially since the end of the Cold War, terrorism has developed into a sophisticated network of political, economic and technical collusion which goes beyond national borders to embrace the whole world. Well-organized terrorist groups can count on huge financial resources and develop wide-ranging strategies, striking innocent people who have nothing to do with the aims pursued by the terrorists.

When terrorist organizations use their own followers as weapons to be launched against defenceless and unsuspecting people they show clearly the death-wish that feeds them. Terrorism springs from hatred, and it generates isolation, mistrust and closure. Violence is added to violence in a tragic sequence that exasperates successive generations, each one inheriting the hatred which divided those that went before. Terrorism is built on contempt for human life.

For this reason, not only does it commit intolerable crimes, but because it resorts to terror as a political and military means it is itself a true crime against humanity.

5. There exists therefore a right to defend oneself against terrorism, a right which, as always, must be exercised with respect for moral and legal limits in the choice of ends and means. The guilty must be correctly identified, since criminal culpability is always personal and cannot be extended to the nation, ethnic group or religion to which the terrorists may belong. International cooperation in the fight against terrorist activities must also include a courageous and resolute political, diplomatic and economic commitment to relieving situations of oppression and marginalization which facilitate the designs of terrorists. The recruitment of terrorists in fact is easier in situations where rights are trampled upon and injustices tolerated over a long period of time.

Still, it must be firmly stated that the injustices existing in the world can never be used to excuse acts of terrorism, and it should be noted that the victims of the radical breakdown of order which terrorism seeks to achieve include above all the countless millions of men and women who are least well-positioned to withstand a collapse of international solidarity—namely, the people of the developing world, who already live on a thin margin of survival and who would be most grievously affected by global economic and political chaos. The terrorist claim to be acting on behalf of the poor is a patent falsehood.

You shall not kill in God's name!

6. Those who kill by acts of terrorism actually despair of humanity, of life, of the future. In their view, everything is to be hated and destroyed. Terrorists hold that the truth in which they believe or the suffering that they have undergone are so absolute that their reaction in destroying even innocent lives is justified. Terrorism is often the outcome of that fanatic fundamentalism which springs from the conviction that one's own vision of the truth must be forced upon everyone else. Instead, even when the truth has been reached—and this can happen only in a limited and imperfect way—it can never be imposed. Respect for a person's conscience, where the image of God himself is reflected (cf. Gen 1:26-27), means that we can only propose the truth to others, who are then responsible for accepting it. To try to impose on others by violent means what we consider to be the truth is an offence against human dignity, and ultimately an offence against God whose image that person bears. For this reason, what is usually referred to as fundamentalism is an attitude radically opposed to belief in God. Terrorism exploits not just people, it exploits God: it ends by making him an idol to be used for one's own purposes.

7. Consequently, no religious leader can condone terrorism, and much less preach it. It is a profanation of religion to declare oneself a terrorist in the name of God, to do violence to others in his name. Terrorist violence is a contradiction of faith in God, the Creator of man, who cares for man and loves him. It is altogether contrary to faith in Christ the Lord, who taught his disciples to pray: “Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Mt 6:12).

Following the teaching and example of Jesus, Christians hold that to show mercy is to live out the truth of our lives: we can and must be merciful because mercy has been shown us by a God who is Love (cf. 1 Jn 4:7-12). The God who enters into history to redeem us, and through the dramatic events of Good Friday prepares the victory of Easter Sunday, is a God of mercy and forgiveness (cf. Ps 103:3-4, 10-13). Thus Jesus told those who challenged his dining with sinners: “Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice'. For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt 9:13). The followers of Christ, baptized into his redeeming Death and Resurrection, must always be men and women of mercy and forgiveness.

The need for forgiveness

8. But what does forgiveness actually mean? And why should we forgive? A reflection on forgiveness cannot avoid these questions. Returning to what I wrote in my Message for the 1997 World Day of Peace (“Offer Forgiveness and Receive Peace”), I would reaffirm that forgiveness inhabits people's hearts before it becomes a social reality. Only to the degree that an ethics and a culture of forgiveness prevail can we hope for a “politics” of forgiveness, expressed in society's attitudes and laws, so that through them justice takes on a more human character.

Forgiveness is above all a personal choice, a decision of the heart to go against the natural instinct to pay back evil with evil. The measure of such a decision is the love of God who draws us to himself in spite of our sin. It has its perfect exemplar in the forgiveness of Christ, who on the Cross prayed: “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Lk 23:34).

Forgiveness therefore has a divine source and criterion. This does not mean that its significance cannot also be grasped in the light of human reasoning; and this, in the first place, on the basis of what people experience when they do wrong. They experience their human weakness, and they want others to deal leniently with them. Why not therefore do towards others what we want them to do towards us? All human beings cherish the hope of being able to start all over again, and not remain for ever shut up in their own mistakes and guilt. They all want to raise their eyes to the future and to discover new possibilities of trust and commitment.

9. Forgiveness therefore, as a fully human act, is above all a personal initiative. But individuals are essentially social beings, situated within a pattern of relationships through which they express themselves in ways both good and bad. Consequently, society too is absolutely in need of forgiveness. Families, groups, societies, States and the international community itself need forgiveness in order to renew ties that have been sundered, go beyond sterile situations of mutual condemnation and overcome the temptation to discriminate against others without appeal.

The ability to forgive lies at the very basis of the idea of a future society marked by justice and solidarity.

By contrast, the failure to forgive, especially when it serves to prolong conflict, is extremely costly in terms of human development. Resources are used for weapons rather than for development, peace and justice. What sufferings are inflicted on humanity because of the failure to reconcile! What delays in progress because of the failure to forgive! Peace is essential for development, but true peace is made possible only through forgiveness.

Forgiveness, the high road

10. Forgiveness is not a proposal that can be immediately understood or easily accepted; in many ways it is a paradoxical message. Forgiveness in fact always involves an apparent short-term loss for a real long-term gain. Violence is the exact opposite; opting as it does for an apparent short‑term gain, it involves a real and permanent loss. Forgiveness may seem like weakness, but it demands great spiritual strength and moral courage, both in granting it and in accepting it. It may seem in some way to diminish us, but in fact it leads us to a fuller and richer humanity, more radiant with the splendour of the Creator.

My ministry at the service of the Gospel obliges me, and at the same time gives me the strength, to insist upon the necessity of forgiveness. I do so again today in the hope of stirring serious and mature thinking on this theme, with a view to a far-reaching resurgence of the human spirit in individual hearts and in relations between the peoples of the world.

11. Reflecting on forgiveness, our minds turn naturally to certain situations of conflict which endlessly feed deep and divisive hatreds and a seemingly unstoppable sequence of personal and collective tragedies. I refer especially to what is happening in the Holy Land, that blessed place of God's encounter with man, where Jesus, the Prince of Peace, lived, died and rose from the dead.

The present troubled international situation prompts a more intense call to resolve the Arab Israeli conflict, which has now been going on for more than fifty years, with alternate phases of greater or lesser tension. The continuous recourse to acts of terror and war, which aggravate the situation and diminish hope on all sides, must finally give way to a negotiated solution. The rights and demands of each party can be taken into proper account and balanced in an equitable way, if and when there is a will to let justice and reconciliation prevail. Once more I urge the beloved peoples of the Holy Land to work for a new era of mutual respect and constructive accord.

Interreligious understanding and cooperation

12. In this whole effort, religious leaders have a weighty responsibility. The various Christian confessions, as well as the world's great religions, need to work together to eliminate the social and cultural causes of terrorism. They can do this by teaching the greatness and dignity of the human person, and by spreading a clearer sense of the oneness of the human family. This is a specific area of ecumenical and interreligious dialogue and cooperation, a pressing service which religion can offer to world peace.

In particular, I am convinced that Jewish, Christian and Islamic religious leaders must now take the lead in publicly condemning terrorism and in denying terrorists any form of religious or moral legitimacy.

13. In bearing common witness to the truth that the deliberate murder of the innocent is a grave evil always, everywhere, and without exception, the world's religious leaders will help to form the morally sound public opinion that is essential for building an international civil society capable of pursuing the tranquillity of order in justice and freedom.

In undertaking such a commitment, the various religions cannot but pursue the path of forgiveness, which opens the way to mutual understanding, respect and trust. The help that religions can give to peace and against terrorism consists precisely in their teaching forgiveness, for those who forgive and seek forgiveness know that there is a higher Truth, and that by accepting that Truth they can transcend themselves.

Prayer for peace

14. Precisely for this reason, prayer for peace is not an afterthought to the work of peace. It is of the very essence of building the peace of order, justice, and freedom. To pray for peace is to open the human heart to the inroads of God's power to renew all things. With the life-giving force of his grace, God can create openings for peace where only obstacles and closures are apparent; he can strengthen and enlarge the solidarity of the human family in spite of our endless history of division and conflict. To pray for peace is to pray for justice, for a right-ordering of relations within and among nations and peoples. It is to pray for freedom, especially for the religious freedom that is a basic human and civil right of every individual. To pray for peace is to seek God's forgiveness, and to implore the courage to forgive those who have trespassed against us.

For all these reasons I have invited representatives of the world's religions to come to Assisi, the town of Saint Francis, on 24 January 2002, to pray for peace. In doing so we will show that genuine religious belief is an inexhaustible wellspring of mutual respect and harmony among peoples; indeed it is the chief antidote to violence and conflict. At this time of great distress, the human family needs to be reminded of our unfailing reasons for hope. It is precisely this hope that we intend to proclaim in Assisi, asking Almighty God—in the beautiful phrase attributed to Saint Francis himself—to make each of us a channel of his peace.

15. No peace without justice, no justice without forgiveness: this is what in this Message I wish to say to believers and unbelievers alike, to all men and women of good will who are concerned for the good of the human family and for its future.

No peace without justice, no justice without forgiveness: this is what I wish to say to those responsible for the future of the human community, entreating them to be guided in their weighty and difficult decisions by the light of man's true good, always with a view to the common good.

No peace without justice, no justice without forgiveness: I shall not tire of repeating this warning to those who, for one reason or another, nourish feelings of hatred, a desire for revenge or the will to destroy.

On this World Day of Peace, may a more intense prayer rise from the hearts of all believers for the victims of terrorism, for their families so tragically stricken, for all the peoples who continue to be hurt and convulsed by terrorism and war. May the light of our prayer extend even to those who gravely offend God and man by these pitiless acts, that they may look into their hearts, see the evil of what they do, abandon all violent intentions, and seek forgiveness. In these troubled times, may the whole human family find true and lasting peace, born of the marriage of justice and mercy!

From the Vatican, 8 December 2001

JOHN PAUL II


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Comment #261 Removed by Moderator

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
fundamentalist bump.
262 posted on 01/03/2002 7:36:46 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: conservonator
Are you suggesting that Christ will return as a Presbyterian?

It matters not what a man would suggest that Christ will return as, but only what the Bible says His return will be like.

For the saints this will be the wonderful and Glorious return of the Lion (Revelation 5:5), who will have vengence upon all those who hated the saints and His Glorious Person (Isaiah 63, Revelation 6:10, and a host of other passages). We will see this and fear and shall laugh at those who did not make God their strength (Psalm 52). And we shall praise Him BECAUSE He has done this.

For those who hated Him He will trample them in His fury and tread them in the winepress of His wrath and their blood will stain all His garments (Isaiah 63) and their blood will spread out for one thousand six hundred furlongs (Revelation 14, Revelation 19); all for His Glorious Name.

What if God, choosing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and this, that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, whom He had prepared before unto glory, even us whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
If this is true, and it is, then unless a man repents and falls upon the Rock Christ Jesus with his whole heart and mind and body and soul, then He will perish. For all flesh will Glorify God either by delighting in Him or being destoryed by Him. And my hope is built upon nothing less than Jesus Blood and Righteousness. It is His covenant with me, paid by His blood, and established with a Down Payment of His promise to return; which was given to me by my Lord when I still hated Him. I have fallen at His feet and worshipped Him in awe and wonder because He has done this.
263 posted on 01/03/2002 7:58:46 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: Jerry_M;OrthodoxPresbyterian;CCWoody
Luther ....The Birth Father of the Reformation always called on the psalms in times like this..

Luthers response

264 posted on 01/03/2002 8:07:50 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: CCWoody
And my hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' Blood and Righteousness.

Nice use of this teaching from a superb old hymn.
265 posted on 01/03/2002 8:24:03 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: RnMomof7
Hey Happy New Year Mark!

Thank you, and same to you. I also got a good intellectual knowledge of the Lord, and for that I am thankful, but I agree, the personal relationship, is better than the intellectual knowledge. Later.

266 posted on 01/03/2002 8:55:45 AM PST by Mark17
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; the_doc; All
".... fundamentalism is an attitude radically opposed to belief in God."

There's fundamentalism and then there's fundamentalism, as Ethan North pointed out in his post on 11-17-01 HERE excerpted:

"...The Reformed scholars of the school defended historic Christian teaching against the anti-christian liberalism that was taking over much of the American church. The works they published defended the fundamentals of the faith, such as the inspiration of Scripture, the Virgin birth of Christ, the bodily Resurrection, the divinity of Christ and the substitutionary atonement of Christ. Those that held to historic Christian teaching were then labeled "fundamentalists" (it should be carefully noted that these "fundamentalists" should not be equated with or confused with the current dispensationalist fundamentalists, as they are strikingly different, whereas the so-called present-day fundamentalist is typified as being anti-intellectual, anti-historic, anti-creedal, which the great men that fought the liberals in the early 20th century were certainly not any of the above)."

267 posted on 01/03/2002 9:08:01 AM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Jim Robinson; Thinkin' Gal ;veronica;dennisw;TrueBeliever9; Prodigal Daughter; Zadokite...
Interesting to note my discussion with Judith last night has been censored by the monitors..It was polite .....it was not offensive ..it was the basis of her remarks where she accuses me of distorting her words...her posts were allowed to remain..my were pulled..so a reader might unfairly assume that I had not been polite in discourse.

I find this interesting in light of the fact I complained mightily about personal attacks and the monitor refused to censor them..but in the end pulled an entire thread to punish everyone that was enjoying the discussion..

This is not even handed and I would like all of Judith's response to me pulled if the original posts were also pulled

There is very definitely a pro Catholic..anti Protestant bias by some monitors!

268 posted on 01/03/2002 9:12:03 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: All
"Free Republic is an online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America."

Free Republic

269 posted on 01/03/2002 9:12:29 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: CCWoody; OrthodoxPresbyterian; RnMomof7
For those who hated Him He will trample them in His fury and tread them in the winepress of His wrath and their blood will stain all His garments (Isaiah 63)

Even a Unitarian hymnist, a denomination not generally regarded as strong bible students, was well aware of the wrath of the Lamb upon His return in an earlier godfearing era in America:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord,
   He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
These are, to any student of the Bible, not merely colorful phrases but are a fairly capable brief hymnal adaptation of teachings found throughout scripture in both Testaments.

How often the posts of some of those from the Roman church makes me think that when they try to describe the nature of God, they're actually describing their "invisible friend" from childhood. To know God and to love God is to fear Him and His power, something our forbears once knew from study of the Word and the ancient fathers of the church who wrote extensively on the subject. It is quite jarring to note that this concept is so utterly alien to modernists (this includes the modern camp of Rome as well). I wish I could say I was surprised. But the Bible told us that this would happen within the churches so we have no cause for complaint that God didn't warn us. More prophetic warnings fulfilled. Still, it seems inconceivable that literate people can read the Bible and so studiously ignore that which is so plainly written.

Rome has squandered whatever inheritance and authority it might ever have had in the Kingdom.
270 posted on 01/03/2002 9:17:52 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: Admin Moderator;Jim Robinson
Grass roots conservatism follows the constitution..which was written by old white protestant men.

They saw God as an intergral part of any government and the right to discuss Religion openly as a right. Now JR has the right, since it is his forum ,to ban all religious discussion. But I do not believe he intends that one church or one set of beliefs be allowed to stay while another is censored. Like the Protestants that have loved FR and posted here he loves the constitution and its core values.

It is not right that Protestant speech is censored and Catholic speech not..and that is what has happen on this thread.

It is part of a general trend to bash Protestants ..the one group that still unwavers in its support of the founders..

271 posted on 01/03/2002 9:27:45 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Jerry_M;CCWoody;OrthodoxPresbyterian
bump to 271
272 posted on 01/03/2002 9:32:19 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
It is part of a general trend to bash Protestants ..the one group that still unwavers in its support of the founders..

Lol! Bashing is in the eye of the beholder.

As is the "depends what your meaning of IS, is" defense of human lives ... as evidenced most recently by Bush's decision to fund research on already-been-killed "EXCESS" human lives.

Buttressing same, of course, with a little Scripture from his "favorite philosopher".

"Protest" is the root word of Protestant. It's precisely Protestantism that resulted in the DEISM, not Christianity, of some of our key founding fathers.

273 posted on 01/03/2002 9:34:28 AM PST by Askel5
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To: RnMomof7; the_doc; Ethan North; All
".....Protestants ..the one group that still unwavers in its support of the founders.."

"We have (at least) two competing visions about how America should be Christianized. Mine is non-statist. I want greater liberty and greater obedience, not less liberty in the attempt to politically guarantee such obedience.

This dilemma is highlighted by the critics on the Left that we are “The American Taliban.” After all, some contend, don’t we agree with most of the Taliban’s criticisms of the decadent United States? Don’t we believe in a union of church and state? Don’t we advocate an enforced Christianity, as they do an enforced Islam?

In a word, no. The Taliban are (were!) godless political tyrants bent on protecting a murderous international cartel. The fact that they opposed Buddha and adultery and miniskirts and feminism and homosexuality and rock music and porno are coincidental. They practiced a medieval morality, not a Christian morality. I’ll take America’s low morals and free institutions any day over the Taliban’s high morals and tyrannical state because (a) we can address the moral problem by a full-orbed gospel as long as we have the political freedom to preach it and (b) a high morality that must be enforced by a tyrannical state is a hypocritical, godless morality."

Excerpted from: Commentary HERE

274 posted on 01/03/2002 9:41:08 AM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson
"Free Republic is an online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America."

All no doubt true.

And yet, I would make the argument that FreeRepublic is primarily a forum of people who truly and deeply believe in certain principles.

Political principles. Moral principles. And religious principles.

The greatest problem the Republic faces now, as at any time in our history, is that of apathy, of drift. You can't have a constitutional republic that is composed of moderates and the apathetic any more than a republic can survive if large numbers of the electorate are uneducated.

You seem to think that these battles are constant and unproductive. To the contrary. They help each of us to define who we are and what we really believe. What we're willing to fight for, to make a stink about that just won't go away.

The same spirit that sometimes animates these discussions is, in fact, the same spirit that made FreeRepublic such an powerful influence in the impeachment of x42 and in the Battle for Floriduh.

You won't get moderates to do that. You won't get a moderate to turn out and FReep Condit's office every week, rain or shine, like JimRob and his bunch does. And there are plenty of other examples.

Whether you like it or not, these are all a very vital part of FreeRepublic and what has made it work: the never-say-die, damn-the-torpedos attitude of so many differing people. And what makes it work is the committment to traditional moral values and a constitutional republic.

It isn't perfect but human beings only seem to come in a certain number of flavors. If you want a constitutional forum that can rise and accomplish something, you need some tough bulldogs on it whose jaws stay clenched even after they're beaten to death. And if the dogs growl at each other a little bit between the major battles, then a good doghandler knows that that is just their nature.

I think JimRob knows this better than some of you moderators. Over the course of time, I think you'll see it too.

I think that in policing complaints and unruliness on religious threads, gross insults and a constant pattern of baiting is what you should watch for. We Calvinists don't complain when others come in and give us a strong argument from time to time. And our RC friends, despite their constant we're-being-persecuted refrain, generally don't have constant trouble either on their threads.

But I say it's good to mix it up now and then so you don't get complacent. It shouldn't be constant and you moderators should watch for a pattern of constant stalking and disruption. But FR won't last if it becomes a haven from free speech either. The marketplace of ideas necessary to any democratic republic is not a series of closed inpenetrable rooms from which all other thought can be excluded.

FreeRepublic needs to let there be some challenges, even tough ones. But a consistent and unrelenting pattern of attack is unproductive. Let the RCs challenge the Protestants and the Protestants challenge the RCs. As long as they mostly have some peace and quiet on their own threads, there's nothing wrong with it. It's healthy. I'll tell you flat out that people complain about the religious bickering but it is a part of what draws people here, just as freedom of religion and expression have always drawn people to our constitutional republic. That's the truth.

Let's remember the value of free speech and the marketplace of ideas.
275 posted on 01/03/2002 9:41:08 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush
Nice post.
276 posted on 01/03/2002 9:42:49 AM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
We agree on the President are you surprised? And for taking that stand I have been called a "talibornagain" ,crazy,daft.an old hag..mocked and dogged on other threads..I have a folder full of slander that came to me because I am a Christian ..that puts Christ first.I will be glad to mail some of it to you if you doubt me.It is one thing to strongly disagree on a topic and stick to that topic..another to turn it into a personal assult

BTW Those old white protestant men were running from Church states .Like England..but also seen in France,Spain,Italy etc..and those were your folks:>)

277 posted on 01/03/2002 9:43:27 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Admin Moderator;Jim Robinson
Thank you for editing this thread!

I was in the middle of research where the "flames" began and documenting some of the cruel remarks (from both Catholics and Protestants) by individual posters. I was going to post this research as an example.

I see now that my intended post would only have increased the tension. Yours was the far superior solution. Thank you again!

I hope in future posts, we can have a civil discussion. As for myself, I have no problem with people quoting from the bible, so long as they tell me (in their own words) exactly why they believe the particular quote is germain to the original intent of the thread.

Have a Happy New Year!

278 posted on 01/03/2002 9:44:03 AM PST by grumpster-dumpster
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To: George W. Bush
I think JimRob knows this better than some of you moderators. Over the course of time, I think you'll see it too.

The moderators act under the explicit instructions of JimRob.

279 posted on 01/03/2002 9:46:04 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: RnMomof7
We agree on all kinds of important things. Flag me next time you take heat ... I got your back.

As for "my people", I think yours is perhaps a simplistic view of history. I'll flag you to a quiet little Catholic thread sometime where you might see a more objective and genuinely historical account.

Regards, RnMomof7.

280 posted on 01/03/2002 9:46:56 AM PST by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 277 | View Replies]


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