Posted on 12/21/2001 11:34:36 AM PST by onedoug
"You got me plum-hypnotized," Elmer Gantry says to Sister Sharon Falconer in that film/novel.
Is that the case with me over Joyce Meyer?
She seems pretty good at down-home preachin'. And while not a classic beauty, she yet ministers out a fair amount sex appeal, along with the word.
(I think, ultimately, it's those Texas/Missouri eyes.)
I post this to philosophy since, as I know she has a fair amount of, at least internet detractors, it yet seems that her ability to project the Word, is as anchored in the integrity of faith as any other TV preacher I can recall.
...Except perhaps the late Bishop Fulton J Sheen.
In short though, Meyer lately fascinates me, and I'm curious what other Freepers may think. Particularly Evangelicals!
Thanks, and Merry Christmas to All!
This is one of my favorite verses. Another one is "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the Lord . . .So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the mater for which I sent it. God's will will be done, despite and in spite of us.
If women weren't supposed to "go and tell" anyone something spiritual, why would the angels and Jesus be telling them, "go and tell" about the good news, of Christ's resurrection?
Personally... I think the whole matter has been taken out of context.
I couldn't agree with you more. Usually, that's when trouble begins as far as disagreements in the Word; a verse is pulled out of the context in which it was written and used in isolation to fabricate a whole doctrine. No text should be read this way, especially one such as the Bible (of course, Proverbs lends itself to stand-alone verses).
I was using absurdity to make a point. I in fact think its a cult, and if I am supposed to be so accepting of Word Faith why not be accepting of the other major cults. Again as I said, you all can do whatever you choose. I help make sure that this theology is not leaking into our church by working with the elders to get the materials disapproved for all teaching ministries. This way, those that want to follow the name-it-claim metaphysical teachers can do so in the churches that are set up for that not ours. It does not belong in orthodox christian churches. If we have been wrong for 1900 years as the long line suggests so be it.
Again I just say not in my house. As far as women teaching there are very few women leading classes with men in my church, but I never argued that point anyway.
Zondervan Press 1984
What was your source?
I don't think so. I never assumed about your faith. The "you" mentioned was in general reference. You never whether or not the Holy Spirit dealt with you on Meyer. You only posted what you felt and what CRI had to say.
The original poster of this thread asked for information about Joyce Meyer. I've watched Meyer a few times and felt she was offering psycho-babble rather than solid biblical teaching from the word of God. I posted CRI's comments because they seemed to deal with details. The words speak for themselves.
Again, did God convict you of or did you, through the Holy Spirit discern, this about Meyer or was it really the "I" that determined that Meyer was all psycho-babble? I've heard and witnessed Hank from CRI and your assumption of him not saying anything nice about anyone is absolutely wrong.
Then you have not heard ALL the man has said about others or not followed him too closely. He insults some really outstanding men and women of God while pushing his own agenda. Is he right on some of them? Yes. But not on all of them.
Perhaps you should remove the branch from your own eye before pointing out the spec in someone elses. You have insulted me and my faith and my intentions.
If you feel insulted it isn't because of that post. There was nothing insulting written. Just some general questions. As for your intentions, what exactly were they? All I saw was the intent to use one questionable source to discredit a minister with no proof other than Hank Hanengraaff or that of your own opinion. Of course, without explanation it was easy to assume.
The word it self has no power , it only has the power given by the writer.
Even Satan can quote its words...every cult claims they have interpreted it correctly. With out His grace and the Holy Spirit the word is just words on a page.Words that are bent and misused for personal and sinful reasons.
Those that take a phrase and build a doctrine on it are in error.
The word of God is His word to those that are His to the rest of the world it is foolisness.
But holding a Bible or even reading it from cover to cover does not save. That written word tell us we are saved by a name.Under no other name is one saved.
Well... I think we differ in that regard. I consider a cult to be a religion that leads people away from God. No way does JM do this.
Just a "few" women in Sunday School ministry? You mean...like almost "none"....so it's ok? Don't let the others hear you say that! *chuckle*
I asked you for a biblical citation on this before and you gave me one but not this
Faith is calling things that are not as if they were.
Thanks
When I was a child, my father never neglected the Torah, he always included it in his biblical studies. He also never neglected to teach us the language of his ancestors, though not formally. Though he taught my brother and I much, through the years we neglected the things that we had learned. Regardless, he gave us a solid background into the ancient scriptures as well as the NT as he was very fluent in Greek. I, myself, had no penchant for the languages and lost interest quickly as a teen but went on to study Greek and Latin in college. I passed it with fair grades but since I never applied it I don't recall all I learned. Now, as an adult, I find the scriptures to be more alive than ever due to my leaning on what my father taught me as a foundation and delving deeper.
I liken this to having the best of both worlds. I occasionally use my own Greek NT to study by but always with two or three concordences and my NKJV. I have even started to ( attempt ) to teach my own children some Hebrew and Greek as well. I am no professor of the ancient tongues so I do not delve too deeply into it with them. My husband is also becoming fascinated with the language and has reccommended us all taking lessons together as we teach our younger children at home.
He walks the edge of Mormonism in his doctrine
In his sermon tape, Following the Faith of Abraham, Kenneth Copeland teaches that God created Adam a god (having the same attributes as God Himself): "And Adam is as much like God as you can get, just the same as Jesus when He came into the earth. And I want you to know something * Adam in the garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh."
We now see that Brigham Young of Mormonism isn't the only one who has taught the Adam-God theory (Deseret News, 16 June 1973), but also Kenneth Copeland. (parenthesis mine).
In The Force of Love, another sermon tape, Kenneth Copeland states, "You don't have a god in you, you are one."
Please visit the link and then pray about it
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12.
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. 1st Peter Chapter 1 verses 23 thru 25
Hebrews 4:12. In this passage, the Word of God is described in amazing terms... a. It is "living" b. It is "powerful" c. It is "sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit" d. It is "a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" At a time in which God's Word is so often neglected, even by some Christians, it never hurts to contemplate the wonder of God's Word.
I. THE WORD OF GOD IS "LIVING" AND "POWERFUL"
A. GOD'S WORD IS NOT SOME "DEAD LETTER"
1. Not only in this passage, but elsewhere we read of the abiding nature of God's Word
a. Notice Peter's description of it - 1 Pe 1:23-25
It "lives and abides forever"
It "endures forever" - cf. Isa 40:8
b. Jesus said "my words shall not pass away" - Mt 24:35
2. The "life" of God's Word is due to the nature of God Himself!
a. God is eternal, He is "the living God" - cf. He 3:12; Jer 10:10
b. He cannot lie, so what He says will come to pass - He 6:18; Ti 1:2 -- Thus His Word will never perish!
3. As Jesus said, "...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." - Jn 6:63
B. THAT GOD'S WORD IS "ALIVE" IS SEEN IN ITS "POWER"
1. It has the power to accomplish its intended purpose - Isa 55: 10-11
2. The gospel in particular has the power to save - Ro 1:16-17; Ja 1:21
3. Through God's word we can be born again - 1 Pe 1:22-23; Ja 1: 18
4. It works effectively in those who believe - 1 Th 2:13; cf. He 4:2
5. It can build us up, and give us the inheritance that is ours - Ac 20:32
6. It can make the man of God complete for all good works - 2 Ti 3:16-17
How could anything with such power be a "dead letter"?
It's power is seen further as mentioned below:
II. THE WORD OF GOD IS "SHARP" AND "A DISCERNER"
A. SHARPER THAN AN "TWO-EDGED SWORD"
1. The Word of God is often likened to powerful objects
a. Here it is described as a sword - cf. also Ep 6:17
b. Elsewhere it is it described as fire, and a hammer - Jer 23:29
2. To illustrate its sharpness as a "sword", the Word of God is said to pierce
a. "...even to the division of soul and spirit"
b. "...and of the joints and marrow"
-- i.e., the divine word is able to cut through everything that is in man
B. A DISCERNER OF "THE THOUGHTS AND INTENTS OF THE HEART"
1. With its sharpness, it is capable of sifting through and revealing the heart of man
2. It's effect on man reveals his true heart
a. In some cases, that one's heart is sincere and open to change - e.g., Ac 2:36-37
b. Other times, that one's heart has no desire to change - e.g., Ac 5:33; 7:54
a. Some are so "dull of heart", that they react with indifference and say "so what?"
b. Some are "cut to the heart", angrily resist the Word, and blame the messenger - Ac 7:54
c. Some are "cut to the heart", and cry out "what shall I do?" - Ac 2:37
Forgive my inability to outline well. :)
Sadly, according to the Hanengraaffs and Clouds ( and their faithful followers ) the women of the both, the OT and the NT, were out of His will. Oddly, He still chose to use Deborah, a judge. He also chose to use Huldah to VERIFY the word of the Lord to Josiah instead of her contemporary Jeremiah or Zephania. When King Jeroboam wanted a revelation from God he sent his wife to the prophet Ahijah, who entrusted God's word to her, and she in turn mediated it to her husband (1 Kings 14:1-18).
Jesus' obvious respect for women speaks for itself. He BROKE the rabbinical law by speaking to the woman with the issue of blood ). After Jesus healed Peter’s mother-in-law, " she arose, and ministered unto them" (Matt 8:15, KJV). How can that be that this woman ministered unto the Lord, of all people? Mention is made of a band of women who followed Christ constantly and who "ministered unto him of their substance" (Luke 8:3, KJV).
"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother" (Matt 12:50).
His conversation with the Samaritan woman (John 4:7-30) shows His willingness to dismiss the cultural conventions of His time. According to rabbinic thinking Jesus should not have talked with her for three reasons: she was a Samaritan, a woman, and immoral. Jesus refused to be restricted by such cultural conventions in revealing to her His Messiahship.
The conversation indicates that Jesus considered this woman as capable of grasping profound theological concepts such as the "living water" (John 4:10), the correct place of worship (4:21), and the spiritual nature of God (4:24). It is instructive to note that this woman is the first person to whom Jesus, in John’s Gospel, reveals Himself as Messiah. She not only accepted Jesus as the expected Messiah but was also the first messenger to witness for Him to the Samaritans. The success of her witness is emphasized by John who says that "Many Samaritans from that city believed in him because of the woman’s testimony" (4:39).
Jesus’ encounter with a Canaanite woman provides another example of His appreciation for women’s intellectual and spiritual capabilities (Matt 15:21-28; Mark 7:24-30). Seeking healing for her daughter, this woman followed Jesus until the disciples became so irritated that they begged Jesus to send her away. Jesus’ attitude was different. He refused to send her away. Instead, He chose to talk with her and test her faith. She understood that Jesus’ first responsibility was to Israel, but she also believed that He could bestow upon her "the crumbs" of His blessings. Jesus commended her "great faith" (Matt 15:28) and granted her request. What is significant here is that Jesus recognized the woman's intelligence and faith by talking with her and deliberately bringing out her intellectual and spiritual capacities.
At a time when women appeared in public only when absolutely necessary, it must have been a matter of considerable gossip to see a group of women travelling with Jesus. It was not uncommon for a rabbi to travel with a band of followers, but it was most unusual for women to be among them. The fact that Jesus accepted both the presence and the service of these devoted women clearly shows that His actions were not conditioned by the custom of the day.
Strange that some feel that women have no place in ministry when Jesus fully proved that they do. Again, be aware of the circumstances in which a word was given.
Sometimes wait means wait..
Psalm 25:1<[A Psalm] of David.> Unto thee, O LORD, do I lift up my soul.
2O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.
3Yea, let none that wait on thee be ashamed: let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.
4Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.
:5Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou [art] the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Psalms 39:7 And now, Lord, what wait I for? my hope [is] in thee.
Hosea 12:6 Therefore turn thou to thy God: keep mercy and judgment, and wait on thy God continually.
Online Bibles: Verse Lookup Jeremiah - King James (Authorized) Version
29:11For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
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Jeremiah 29
11 "For I know the <*1> plans that I [1] have for you,' declares the LORD, "plans for <*2> welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a <*3> hope.
Jeremiah 29:11 :: King James Version (KJV)
Jeremiah 29
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
You may want to check your version
Why? Is King James the one and only true Holy Bible translation? No actually it is not. As a matter of fact it has many interpitation errors of Hebrew and Greek. But it as well as other translations as related to the Gospel message remain intact. Personally I would prefer more up to date translations that have been compared to writtings such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. A lot is being learned through science that has not contridicted the Gospel but has helped bring cleraer menaings.
Let me give you an example. Where is Mount Sani? Is it in the Sanai Pennisulia{sp} which even then was Egypt or is it else where? I got curious on that matter. The Sanai never did seem right to me. The space too small and the miricale lessened by crossing a marsh rather than the sea. So where is it?
Two men set out to find out one was actually agnostic I believe. They for all practical purposes located it down to the alters and burn marks in Saudia Arabia. The place where Moses fled to first. I found a CIA picture of the Straights of Tiran at the Gulf of Aquaba and you can see from it the most likely place of the crossing. A satellitte view of it actually. A close look at it reveals two narrow but deep channels followed by shallows. The channels so narrow that one is inbound one is out bound ships can not pass in the same channel. Yet time after time even in King James you will see maps where Constitine sent an expidition to discover Mt. Sanai. The geography and logic say Saudia Arabia. The mountain is hid from the world by Saudia Arabia it is a defense site. You can not visit it. Many things will be revealed to us in GODs own time.
How could a nation Israel be reborn in one day and then prosper? A mystery up till 1948. How can the world seee the streets of Jerusalem all at one time. Up till the past 20 years that was basically impossible now you can sit anywhere in the world and indeed see the streets of Jerusalem. Daniel gave a clue to that or rather Daniel was given the revelation.
What good does a King James Bible do me if I can not read it? It was written for the people of that time in their launguage before that over a 1000 translations actually existed. There are even questions to the last chapter of Mark a chapter many use as a basis of their worship. Don't get me wrong the King James Bible especially in Psalms is a great translation but a more up to date translation reveals a more accurate and meaningfull reading. It does not destroy the integrity of the Gospel.
So why did you jump all over me?
Sorry didn't mean it to sound that way.
Please continue with this chapter as this one verse is not to be read alone for argument's sake.
Jeremiah 29:10-14 (NKJV)--The truth is that you will be in Babylon for 70 years.BUT then I will come and do for you ALL of the GOOD things I have PROMISED.
For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord."They are plans for good and not for disaster", to give you a future and hope. IN THOSE DAYS WHEN YOU PRAY I WILL LISTEN. IF YOU LOOK FOR ME IN EARNEST, you WILL find me when you seek me". "I will be found by you", says the Lord. "I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. I will gather you out of the nations where I sent you and bring you home again to your own land".
God has a plan, or a will for His people. Notice again though that those people MUST SEEK HIM first with sincerity for that plan to be executed. He will NOT force His will upon us. If you can provide scriptural evidence stating that He does force His will upon us please provide it so that I may study it for myself.
Jer:29
9 They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them," declares the LORD.
10 This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.
11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.
13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Okay... You were speaking of God's Plan for us.. and using this scripture as reference, right? This is prophetic in regards to Israel's return to their land, not the general Christian believer... or am I mistaken?
As I pointed out previously..."Wait" can also mean "Trust" "Hope" or "Having Dependence on"... which is what most of those verses refer to.
I didn't see the one that referred to "Scripture says we are to wait on the Lord, and only move forward when he tells us to." You have to use scripture in it's context... don't you think?
Ecclesiastes 11
6 Sow your seed in the morning, and at evening let not your hands be idle, for you do not know which will succeed, whether this or that, or whether both will do equally well.
The Lord gives us intelligence... as well as common sense. (Most of us anyway...*chuckle*) I've seen people take things to an extreme... in what you were putting forth here... so much so.. that they won't even go grocery shopping without "checking with the Lord first". That borderlines on divination.
I pray, depend on the Holy Spirit to give me wisdom and direction.....plus I keep a continual, prayful dialog going all day long. Works for me!
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