US investigating whether nukes in country

Washington Times ^ | 12/20/01 | RICHARD SALE

[Uncle Bill]

"Tell me why is it that GW Bush ,Condi Rice, the Repubs and Democrats & Congress and American corporations continue to ignore China's terrorism and hold business as usual with China? Are they stupid enough to believe that unfair trade with China will reform CHina?"

GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT (Soft on Clinton and China)

Traitor Bill Clinton

How China took White House

Republican Investigators Struggle But Manage To "Raise Eyebrows"

Lion Dancing With Wolves - China - Haig - Kissinger

Condoleezza Rice and the Stanford Spy Ring

"Mr. Bush's key campaign national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, has said she does not regard China as a threat,"
Bill Gertz

Red money inside American politics

Timperlake & Triplett - 'Something wicked this way comes'

While America Sleeps
"Another major state-controlled company that has attracted Wall Street capital is China Resources (Holding), notorious among U.S. counterintelligence officials for the services it renders to Chinese intelligence collectors. Through China Resources Development Inc., registered in Salt Lake City, Utah, the company raised funds from Wall Street in 1996 -- and SEC documents obtained by TAS show it has used that capital to expand state-owned enterprises back in China. Profits from the venture are distributed to directors through a holding company in the British Virgin Islands known as Billion Luck Company Ltd.

By far the largest public offering in the U.S. of a Chinese state-owned company was Huaneng Power International Inc., which raised $600 million on the NYSE in October 1994. The company operates five power plants in China, and pledges to use its U.S. money to finance new power plants in China. But a sizeable portion of the new funds ($51.5 million) was earmarked for paying off low-interest loans that had been advanced previously by provincial governments, which were given 35 percent of the stock in the new company.

It was, if ever there was one, a sweetheart deal. U.S. investors paid $600 million to purchase 25 percent of the company, while the directors gave away 35 percent of the stock, worth $840 million, to their buddies in the local Chinese governments, sweetening the pot even further with a $51.5 million cash pay-off. It may help that Li Xiaopeng, the son of the Chinese premier, sits on the company's board."

Trading With The Enemy

U.S. corporations just say no to Pledge of Allegiance

Chinese Checkers

MORE

China threatens U.S. with missile strike

Why I was threatened by Justice

[OKCSubmariner]

I have done my one good boyscout deed for the day- I managed to consume enough of your time with your diversionary responses so that others on the FR could get on with more substantive issues so as not to have their time wasted by you and your nonsense.

Tommorrow I will hand off to someone else the pitiful but necessary duty of good Freepers of keeping you occupied so others can have some normalcy on FR.

Don't forget to call Bill Jasper. I do not have the money to waste paying you for your services(?) that you claim you charge exorbitant prices for ($150/hr-HAHAHAHA). Judging by the quality of your replies, the $150/hr would be definately wasted by anyone foolish enough to pay you.

You might get some useful dialog someday (rather than your lonely monologue) with somebody when you admit you were mistaken about the Russian mini nuke tested at LosAlamos.

Oh, and BTW, do you sleep better pretending there are no CHinese mini neutron bombs? Your denial will not protect you.

[Nita Nupress]

As long as they keep the Christans In Action etc etc...

LOL! As if the word "Christians" itself won't set off the nolehcE alarm bells. ;-)

[OKCSubmariner]

I love your answer in reply #81. Now that is an answer!!!

Poohbah needs to take lessons from you on what it means to give and receive substantitive replies. He is starting to sound frustrated.

[Squantos]

Had to dig out my Flash Gordon ring to read that one :o)

Stay Safe and Merry New Year Nita, hope Santa was good to ya !

[katze]

Speaking of claims, the following post is one of many that accuses former President of "great" (whatever that is, as opposed to just plain) treason. I think it is time that OKCSubmariner puts up, or shuts up with this charge.

Treason is a heinous act, may be punishable by death, and if President George H.W. Bush, is guilty, I think it is high time we contact the FBI, CIA, ATF, and any other alphabet agencies who might have interest, and get this scoundrel put in the hoosegow.

Haven't said anything about this, because I didn't want to get in a whizzing contest, but I'm getting awfully damned tired of someone who claims to know so much, so many people, tossing out this charge about the elder Bush. I've noticed sources cited like the New American, World Net Daily, and if this is what you have to go on, then I believe it is time you prove this charge, or back off. I have, BTW, noticed in a post, or two, that is has become "*may* have been treason".

And before you call the gang out on me, be informed I may do the same; I don't bully easy. OTOH, if you are able to prove the charge, I'll go forward with it myself, since I do not fear the Govt, any current or former presidents. And I sure don't fear someone who makes such a serious charge; in fact, find them more disgusting than dangerous.

The referenced post (of several) containing the charge follows:

"Bush senior gave the US neutron bomb technology to the Chinese and French about ten years ago in an act of great treason.

19 posted on 12/15/01 3:37 PM Pacific by OKCSubmariner"

[katze]

Before you go on to other things, I'd appreciate proof, or denial, of your charge of treason against the elder President Bush.

[Poohbah]

I have done my one good boyscout deed for the day- I managed to consume enough of your time with your diversionary responses so that others on the FR could get on with more substantive issues so as not to have their time wasted by you and your nonsense.

Isn't that special? You just admitted that you're here to waste bandwidth.

Tommorrow I will hand off to someone else the pitiful but necessary duty of good Freepers of keeping you occupied so others can have some normalcy on FR.

And you admit that you're part of a group intending to do that.

No wonder you whine and scream that anyone who disagrees with a single jot or tittle of your verbal flatulence--you're mirror-imaging yourself.

Don't forget to call Bill Jasper. I do not have the money to waste paying you for your services(?) that you claim you charge exorbitant prices for ($150/hr-HAHAHAHA). Judging by the quality of your replies, the $150/hr would be definately wasted by anyone foolish enough to pay you.

Sonny boy, that's what I charge--AND GET--for my services. You see, unlike you, Patrick me boy, I see no need to misrepresent my qualifications. I don't have to pretend that I'm a nuclear engineer. (Amazing that you haven't addressed the enthalpy/entropy/work issue--or did I go racing beyond your no-doubt enormous education in physics?) I do serious work in the IT field.

As far as I can tell, Paddie me lad, your main claim to fame is that you give Billy Jasper the kind of BS he wants to hear. Tell us, Paddie...what WAS your job on the Trident program, if you actually held such a post?

You might get some useful dialog someday (rather than your lonely monologue) with somebody when you admit you were mistaken about the Russian mini nuke tested at LosAlamos.

Excuse me, but you haven't even provided evidence that this event ever happened. How about some independent verification (seismic records, etc.) of such a claim? All you have is a thoroughly ridicuous claim (specifically, the claim that it was FEDEXED to Los Alamos). On the one hand, we have your claim that the DoE FedExes neutron bombs around. On the other hand, we have exacty ZERO independent data for such an event taking place.

Oh, and BTW, do you sleep better pretending there are no CHinese mini neutron bombs? Your denial will not protect you.

Do you check for monsters under your bed before you go to sleep? Do you make sure that the Dreaded Black Helicopters® aren't hovering outside your window?

[Nita Nupress]

Journalists and politicians... can you think of two groups with less credibility?

Yes.

1. Anonymous internet posters.

2. Keyboard Cowboys on FR who get a hard-on from either:
-scaring people by blowing things out of proportion, or
-minimizing anything and everything because they think it makes them look knowledgeable.

Of course, one could argue that #2 above is actually a subset of #1 and therefore I'm only listing one group...

Whatever.

[katze]

Then, Nita, there are those who are a direct (not subset) combination of 1 and 2.

[Nita Nupress]

That dog won't hunt. If they had nukes they would have already used them.

Four short months ago you probably claimed they'd use jetfuel-laden airplanes if they had them, didn't you?

And last week you probably claimed they'd use explosive-laden shoes if they had them.

Puh-lease.

[Nita Nupress]

Then, Nita, there are those who are a direct (not subset) combination of 1 and 2.

Do you have a source for that? Link, please. ;-)

[Poohbah]

Yeah, you're talking about one single group.

BTW, let me add my favorites to the listing of those with the least credibility:

Used car dealers. I've gone out with friends to look at used cars, checked the VIN against the "salvage title" database and gotten a positive hit, found ineptly-forged title papers (one dealer mispelled "STATE" in the Cal DMV letterhead), even verified with my own eyes that the car had been hit REAL good, smashed into about a gazillion or so pieces, and poorly reassembled. We then ask the salesman, "So, has this thing ever been in an accident?" and get, "Of COURSE not, sir!"

Those "researchers" who always find that this substance or that food causes cancer, cardiovascular disease, bad breath, ingrown toenails, and the heartbreak of psoriasis--and then, a few months later, after scaring the collective beejezus out of us, write a brief letter to some medical journal saying a la Gilda Radner, "nevermind."

[Poohbah]

Nita, think about the difference here: they used jet-fuel loaded airplanes and explosive-laden shoes BECAUSE they lacked access to nukes.

One set is using a common capability in a unique fashion: the other is using a very UNCOMMON capability.

If I were an Evil Terrorist Mastermind^TM, I'd use the most destructive means available to me immediately; I might not be around long enough to use it otherwise. And a nuke might not be usable if I kept it lying around instead of using it right off the bat.

Incidentally, for more detail than you ever wanted to know about nuclear weapons, how they work, and the various logistical issues surrounding them, there is an excellent book by Chuck Hansen called U.S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret History. The first chapter is a very readable explanation of nuclear physics and how nuclear weapons work. The second and third chapters are a history of the development of American nuclear weapons from 1945 to the end of atmospheric testing in 1962. The rest of the book discusses each model of nuclear weapon made between 1945 and 1987 (when the book was published), including some that never got built or were planned for production in the early 1990s. It should be available at any major library.

[Nita Nupress]

Let me get this straight...

You want all readers of this thread to dismiss as ridiculous the possibility that UBL's suicide bombers have and would use a nuclear/radiological device? And you think we should dismiss this idea because UBL's thought processes are similar to Poohbah's thought processes? Poohbah, the anonymous internet poster at FreeRepublic.com?

All-righty, then...

[katze]

Don't need a link for that, Nita, it has been in front of you for quite some time. Talk is cheap, proof is another story.

[Nita Nupress]

Talk is cheap, proof is another story.

Exactly.

[katze]

Be fair, Nita. The man who was quoted, Rep Weldon, who said there is better than a 50/50 chance they have nukes, also said they haven't anything sufficient to destroy anything more than a "compound".

I'm certainly not discounting there may be nukes in this country, but they know they'd better have something to destroy more than a compound, because their own country will be wiped out, if not the entire Middle East.

What has me in a snit, is the accusation that former Pres Bush is being accused of treason, and it oughta do the same to you. I'm still waiting for proof, and I'll be most surprised if it comes. Talk about anonymous, and trying to scare people. ;-)

[OKCSubmariner]

I just admitted I was proud to have kept you from wasting other's bandwidth and time!! You still have not get it right yet.

You sound frustrated and desperate.

[Poohbah]

No, I'm pointing out that if he has acquired such a capability, we would know that fact VERY quickly. There are claims that he's had suitcase nukes since 1998. Given that these things aren't the sort of widget you can just leave lying around for any length of time (again, read Hansen's book for a very detailed discussion of these issues), the fact that these devices have NOT been used tends to argue against those claims--or else it indicates that Osama has no problems about expending lots of money for exactly ZERO return. If the latter is the case, I'll dance a jig--not even Osama has infinite wealth.

It's not as if nuclear weapons are (a) lying around in mass quantities like conventional explosives, easily purchased or stolen and (b) that said devices can be just left lying around for years on end. Again, compare and contrast the scarce against the commonplace.

Might he have acquired them very recently? That is quite possible. However, whenever Al-Qaeda DOES get such a weapon, the clock is ticking from the moment their people gain custody.

As for a radiological bomb...yeah, it's entirely possible. However, I'd worry more about regular bombs, because the radiological material adds another signature to be detected (i.e., neutron and gamma emissions), but it doesn't significantly increase the lethality of the weapon. About all it does do is render the detonation site temporarily uninhabitable.