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To: Physicist
Source" implies causality, which implies time. But time is a property of the universe, and a malleable, manipulable one at that. Time exists in the universe; the universe does not exist in time.

You're right that time is a property of the universe, which started up with the universe. But being a property of the universe it is therefore not nothing. But I used the word 'source' because the issue is not merely the "beginning" of the universe but the source of it. I am trying to emphasize that it couldn't pop into existence out of absolute nothing. Even if it has always existed with no actual beginning is beside the point because it has to have a source of origin even if it doesn't have a starting point in time. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but a quantum vacuum is not nothing, but a state of physical conditions with mathamatically describable properties.

Cordially,

226 posted on 12/20/2001 10:47:52 AM PST by Diamond
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To: Diamond
I am trying to emphasize that it couldn't pop into existence out of absolute nothing.

You're right, but once you remove that from a historical sequence (i.e. time), it is equivalent to saying that there isn't just nothing. In other words, existence exists.

The concept of "causation" presupposes time.

227 posted on 12/20/2001 11:06:57 AM PST by Physicist
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