Posted on 12/10/2001 9:37:04 AM PST by My Favorite Headache
Anti-war demonstrators, war veterans square off in peaceful gathering
Monday, December 10, 2001
By MIREIDY FERNANDEZ, mmfernandez@naplesnews.com
and I.M STACKEL, imstackel@naplesnews.com
Anti-war demonstrators mostly made up of Collier County schoolteachers and students faced off against Vietnam and Korean war veterans Sunday afternoon, with each side armed with the symbols of their philosophy — protest signs and American flags.
The confrontation was peaceful, and although police were on the scene no one was arrested during the three-hour protest.
Wearing a green poster that read "Peace not War," Kathleen McLoughlin said she doesn't support violence of any type.
"Why don't we listen to giving peace a chance?" asked McLoughlin. "One war doesn't stop another war. Is that a solution?"
"You just have to feel disgusted," said Barry Kotek, 49, who favors the war on terrorism. "Our country was attacked Sept. 11; we did nothing to provoke the attack and several thousand people died. We have a lot of troops in harm's way who need our support."
A heated argument broke out for about 15 minutes shortly after the 3 p.m. rally got under way when the motorcycle-riding vets surrounded the anti-war demonstrators and revved their engines, creating a thunderous clamor.
"Where are the cops when you need them?" asked anti-war protester and rally organizer Ian Harvey, 46, a media teacher at Lely High School and a member of A.N.S.W.E.R., for Act Now to Stop War and End Racism, a New York City-based organization created in the aftermath of Sept. 11.
A handful of Naples police officers showed up minutes after protesters arrived at the Naples Plaza parking lot at U.S. 41 and Golden Gate Parkway, where both sides either waved American flags or held posters condemning the war efforts. The anti-war protest was called by Harvey, but war vets and others who support held a counter-protest.
Naples police Lt. Robb Bock said he had responded to the scene as a way to "try to keep the peace."
At least one person didn't feel safe during those tense minutes when the vets argued with some anti-war protesters and questioned their patriotism. Organizers estimated there were nearly 100 pro-war demonstrators and 25 anti-war protesters.
"They surrounded us over there. It was pretty intimidating," said Margaret Williams, 54, who attended with her son John, 15, a Gulf Coast High School sophomore.
But tempers remained cool despite attempts by some to verbally wrestle the other side to their point of view. Passing motorists along U.S. 41 looked on and waved or honked at the sight of dozens of American flags being waved by pro-war demonstrators.
Mark Huber, a sophomore at Lely High, said he joined the protest when he learned that Harvey, who is his English teacher, was organizing the rally. He said Harvey openly talks about America's war on Afghanistan in class and that most of his classmates agree with the teacher and also disapprove of the war.
"He's not brainwashing us," said Mark, 15. "He's telling us about things that are happening and that are in the news. We're deliberately bombing a lot of people just to kill a few."
In response, Keith Martin, a member of Collier's POW-MIA organization and a biker, tried to explain to Mark why Collier's war veterans were so emphatic about waving the flag and sticking up for U.S. troops abroad.
"These people are war people," Martin said of his fellow vets. "They're very patriotic and feel this way. They are nice people."
War supporter Barbara Wnek also joined the conversation with another point:
"I read that (Osama) bin Laden is ready to make his largest attack ever on the world and having our children out here protesting that we're trying to stop an evil man from spreading evil throughout the word is awful," said Wnek, 46.
Among the anti-war protesters was Amanda Woodward, a junior at Lely High who wants the United States to stop its attacks on Afghan soil.
"I don't agree with how we're fighting back," said Amanda, 16. "I think we should go to the world court."
John Dwyer, an English teacher at Lely High, said he wants the United States "to stop killing people" and felt it was his "democratic duty to come out and support this."
"This is an opportunity for me to express my opinion," said Dwyer, 58. He and another instructor, Katherine Kando, who teaches English for speakers of other languages at Naples High, said although they were worried about the Collier County School Board's reaction to the protest, they believe everyone is protected under the First Amendment.
Vietnam War vet Joe Hayes said it was painful to see Americans turn their backs on their own country and their service men and women at a time when they need support.
"It hurts me ... it feels like there's traitors in my country," said Hayes, 63. "(Terrorists) killed 5,000 people and (the anti-war protesters) don't worry about that. I'm a religious person but my honor is for country."
Anti-war demonstrators held signs like "Our grief isn't a cry for war," "War is terrorism" and "If (Timothy) McVeigh bombed WTC, would we send him back to Michigan?"
Eddie Filer, of Big Corkscrew Island, was also at the protest supporting the anti-war demonstrators.
"I don't think we belong in Afghanistan because we're over there bombing the country and destroying it," said Filer, 77. "We should do what we can but I don't think we can get rid of the terrorists in this country. I've always been against war."
Ray Truelove, another Vietnam War veteran and organizer of Sunday's counter-protest, said he wants the School Board to explain why there are teachers in the school system who, in his opinion, are "teaching anti-Americanism."
"We want to know some answers," said Truelove, 61. "I'm going to talk to the School Board and the PTA so that parents know what these teachers are teaching young children. This is pure anti-American."
Others like Orin Smith said they felt "neutral" about the U.S. war to hunt down terrorists, dismantle terrorist networks or the manhunt for bin Laden. He said he wasn't in support of either side at Sunday's demonstration.
"I'm kind of confused as to whether (President) Bush should send the troops over there," said Smith, 85. "I was brought up as a Quaker. I think the troops are fighting for the world — not just for our country. I'm in the middle because I'm not sure how they're going to resolve this problem and get rid of terrorists. I think the fighting now is a short-term solution."
I will ask the School Superintendent if that is part of the Curriculum and if Mr. Harvey is ever supervised as to what he is telling children in his classes.
Editorial: War protest
Thursday, December 13, 2001
WAR PROTEST
Teach the children well — by giving both sides
Against the backdrop of Sept. 11, protests of America's war against the mass murderers hiding out in Afghanistan are hard for most of us to fathom.
That goes double when the organizers are public school teachers right here in Naples and some of those who sympathize with them are their young students.
What the teachers and students choose to do on their own time — for example, on weekends away from the classroom — is up to them.
That is the American way, with the exercise of free speech at its core.
Yet, the attention they crave comes with a bite. The spotlight last Sunday included an outpouring of counterprotest from armed services veterans.
The wanton killing of more than 3,000 innocents on airliners and in landmarks of the stature of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon is cause aplenty for U.S. troops — these veterans' comrades in arms and spirit — to venture into harm's way on foreign soil.
The teachers subject themselves to another kind of attention — public scrutiny of what they are telling students in the classroom. Are lessons about Sept. 11 and global terrorism accurate? Is Uncle Sam made out to be the bad guy as he was at Sunday's rally? Teachers and their administrators and policymakers have a special responsibility — now more timely than ever.
Responsible educators must ask themselves whether they have an undue advantage: students are younger and educators hold positions of power over them.
Still, at the foundation of all of this, there is a lot to be said for letting students hear all voices — even the most outrageous ones — and trusting students to act accordingly.
Most Naples-area teens — all but 15 or so — chose to do something else last Sunday afternoon. Their instincts tell them this band of teachers is on the fringe.
Give peace a chance? Give us a break.
Peace is what Osama bin Laden sneered at on Sept. 11.
Peace is what America is fighting for today.
Here's what I learned: there have been a number of calls from parents in various schools and parents of graduates....but no parent in Ian Harvey's class has called. (Could there be fear of the affect on the student's grade?)
American History is taught in the Junior year but Harvey teaches English to Sophomores.
Currently, there in an internal investigation underway to determine if Harvey organized/promoted this protest within the classroom setting. If he did, he may be subject to 'disciplinary action'.
I left my phone number and was assured that I would receive (as I had requested) a 'follow-up' call when the investigation is completed.
If anyone wants to contact the public liason person; please freepmail me.
The IAC seem to be @#$%ing everywhere, don't they. We need an infiltrator at our rally, at least to take names. I can't do it, LOL, they will surely recognize me.
But Larry, somebody, somewhere got hold of this kid. Maybe in florida, maybe in Massachusetts, maybe in Englaand. I was at an IAC meeting in December and there were at least 300-350 people there, with the full blessing, support, and participation of the so-called "church" that gave them their meeting space. All of them total zealots. Brainwashed. Most of them looked young enough to be students. Now imagine those students becoming teachers.
I hate these people, I hate them, I hate them. And I'm beginning to think they were IN ON Sept 11. Yes, I am.
Just not the tolerant person I used to be anymore. These folks are truly dangerous.
There are also groups under different names that also trace back to the same bunch, including a few in Pinellas County. I have not yet found any writeups, however, that mention any teachers from this kids' High School.
The International Action Center is a prominent Left organization located in New York City which is known for organizing large Left protests. What most people don't know is that an authoritarian Left organization stands behind the IAC, an organization known as the Workers World Party. Both organizations have been criticized by Left activists for supporting dictators such as Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein. They have also been criticized for their authoritarian activist methods and for their cooperation with the police.The IAC are like the "Borg" of the Left. They always want to be friends with you and they want you to sign onto their projects. They get the momentum going for their projects by creating deceptive lists of endorsers and then they use this to manipulate other groups to sign on. A critical mass develops behind their event, which ends up being big enough to give the IAC the credibility that it is really interested in. . .MORE
Yeah, Hitler just wanted to be friends with everyone. Didn't the U.S. get the memo?
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