FBI agents rebel over new powers

London Observer ^ | Sunday December 2, 2001 | Ed Vulliamy in New York

[OKCSubmariner]

The US Attorney General, John Ashcroft, was yesterday reported to be ready to relax restrictions on the FBI's powers to spy on religious and church-based political organisations.

His proposal, leaked to the New York Times, would loosen limits on the FBI's surveillance powers, imposed in the 1970s after the death of its founder J. Edgar Hoover.

The plan has caused outrage within the FBI itself with agents expected to act upon new surveillance powers describing themselves as 'very, very angry'.

The spying, wiretapping and surveillance campaign unleashed by Hoover against church and political groups was called 'Cointelpro', and was aimed mainly at the movement behind civil rights activist Martin Luther King, the Black Panthers, the anti-Vietnam war movement and, on the other wing, the Ku Klux Klan.

When the system was revealed, upon Hoover's death, restrictions were put on the security bureau, in the form of two sets of regulations pertaining to foreign-based and domestic groups. The rules forbade FBI agents from sending undercover agents into churches, synagogues or mosques unless they found 'probable cause or evidence' that someone in them had broken the law.

A Justice Department spokeswoman, Susan Dryden, said no final decision had been made on their reintroduction.

According to sources, the plan has caused a sharp rift within the department and the FBI. Ashcroft and the new FBI director, Robert Mueller, are pushing the plan eagerly, but there is strong opposition among officials inside both the bureau and the Justice Department.

Internal opposition to the plan will exacerbate an already fractious atmosphere in the FBI since President Bush took office.

Some agents told the New York Times that they considered any weakening of the guidelines 'a serious mistake', and that the Justice Department had 'not clearly described' the proposed changes. 'People are furious right now,' said one agent.

The changes would become part of what civil liberties groups regard as a dangerously changing legal landscape in the US: 1,200 people with connections to Islamic groups have been taken into custody, and Draconian security measures, such as wiretapping of lawyers, pushed through Congress.

Further plans are now afoot to seek out and interview some 5,000 immigrants, mostly Muslims, who have entered the US since January.

[BillofRights]

Anyone who believes that McVeigh pulled off that OK city bombing all by his 90-IQ lonesome, and that the government is levelling with the people about that, and about the TWA 800 Flight, doesn't need tinfoil -- he needs a brain implant. Oh, I guess I'm just one of those kooky conspiracy theorists! Never mind!

[F16Fighter]

Duckie, the ones who "can't figure it out" are the ones who don't want to anyway.

For the record I agree with you 100% -- The hypocritical Libs and Dems have amnesia when it comes to recalling Clinton's Gestapo tactics of dogging his personal enemies with the FBI and IRS in clear violation of federal law as well as any moral law not on the books. Their silence on the matter was deafening.

[WarHawk42]

When the government has to list those who believe in the supreme law of the land as terrorists it speaks volumes about the government doesn't it.

WarHawk42

[Nick Danger]

I'd quote Franklin on safety vs liberty, but I've been told on other threads that ole Ben was a good guy but he's irrelevant because he never faced the kind of "dire situation" we find ourselves in today. Makes you wonder....

I've sadly concluded that this is not the time to worry about breaking a few heads. It makes me uneasy, but so far the really serious Bad News has been confined to non-citizens. Yeah, there's a slippery slope there, and we do need to worry about that, but so far, I'm inclined to look the other way. Here's why:

There is something far worse that could happen here, that would make today's measures look like the Fourth Amendment.

Regardless of who has been mailing the anthrax around, we know that Mohammed Atta & Co. were looking into crop dusters, had books on various kinds of spraying equipment, and so on. We've also discovered anthrax labs in the left-behinds when al-qa'ida fled from Kabul. If one of these Abduls ever succeeds in spraying 100 pounds of this stuff over an American city, and kills three or four hundred thousand people, you can kiss your civil liberties goodbye. The measures taken in the wake of something like that would make today's measures look like pinpricks by comparison, and people will be clamoring for more. If two such incidents went down with a million or more dead, the vast majority of the American people would cheer the formation of a police state, just to make it stop.

We need to be careful what we wish for here. We could "defend our liberties" right into the grave if we make it so easy for terrorists that they do something that brings a police state down on our heads... by popular demand.

Should the FBI be spying on churches? You bet. Two of the guys who hijacked the planes got their start in America from a mullah. The guy who planned the first WTC bombing was also a mullah. If mosques are off limits, we've essentially created a "cone of silence" for Islamic terrorists, right in the middle of our cities. I don't think we need to be so nice.

[onyx]

I'll piggyback with you any time! :^)

[clintonh8r]

Tinfoil up 1.2% on the Hang Seng and 1.7% on the Nikkei. Damn! The Asians are beating our butts and our markets don't open until Monday!

And we all know who benefitted from the rise of the Taliban, right?.....TOYOTA!

[onyx]

LOL! Toyota!

[timestax]

Better than the BATF way BATF _Jim.:) You worried about your job security? Don't worry, the goverment will continue to cover for you as long as you stay in line. WarHawk42 30 posted on 12/1/01 9:44 PM Pacific by WarHawk42

I thought _Jim is a security guard at the San Diego Zoo, I may be wrong. _Jim the boss told me to fire you if you don't make your rounds and get off the Zoo computor!!

[mlo]

Ashcroft also has blocked release of 22 surveillance tapes in the OKC bombing which show the actual explosion and McVeigh in the accompaniment of ME John Does as well as Federal informants at the bombing scene.

I wonder how it's known what is in these tapes if they are blocked. Can you give me a source for this claim?

[timestax]

OH yeah!!!

[kampeska]

I work with an old crazy from WWII. He remembers when he felt free in the USA. He could take public transportation duck hunting with his shot gun. His freedom was on the backs of those in the USA who perhaps because of skin tone, religious beliefs, or circumstance were more closely watched and controled. The limiting of their freedoms had provided him with more freedom. Those times are gone. We need to be ever vigilent. He is a great guy.

[Lancey Howard]

....or Lee Harvey Oswald and his magic bullet.

[OKCSubmariner]

OKC resident and witness John Morris Kuper testified at the Nickles trial that McVeigh and a John Doe (we now have identified the John Doe through other photos) walked directly in front of surveillance cameras (which the FBI confiscated) at the public library and the SW Bell telephone company in OKC. The US prosecutor Pat Ryan called him a liar but later Ryan publicly admitted in May taht he had made a mistake when the lost and then found FBI 302 interview reports revealed that Kuper had told the truth. Ashcroft refused to act on this revelation. This was reported on FR and in the Daily Oklahoman.

Attorney General Reno office wrote a letter to OK state Rep Charles Key in 1996 acknowledging that the DOJ had a copy of the tape showing the explosion but cited Judge Matsch gag order as the reason for not releasing the tape. I have read the letter to Key.

BlueDogDemo(former OKC PD) who worked for Naval intelligence and for the state department at the bomb scene with the FBI is helping OKC attorney Mike Johnson to get release of the tapes from Judge Matsch but so far Ashcroft has blocked the tapes release. Johnson was on the Alex Jones show last nmoth describing the tapes and what is on them. This was reported on the FR in a WND article.

[OKCSubmariner]

I personally guarantee that AG Ashcroft is covering up the John Does and other evidence in the OKC bombing. I know this first hand. My witness is faithful and true and God and Jesus Christ will vindicate the truth of what I have written .

Ashcroft is evil for the coverup and I believe that God Himself will judge AShcroft for it.

[WRhine]

BTTT. Very well stated Nick.

[OKCSubmariner]

BUMP and please see replies #1 and #2 and #32.

[Plummz]

If the FBI was so intent on getting you

I challenge you to either cite where OKCSubmariner said "the FBI was intent on getting" him, or admit you are lying.