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Show me someone credible who thinks 800 was shot down

Here y'go... Former NTSB Official Backs Missile Theory

21 July, 1998 By Scott Hogenson CNS Executive Editor

(CNS) A former National Transportation Safety Board member says he can no longer support the conclusion of the NTSB that a spark in a fuel cell caused the explosion and crash of TWA Flight 800 more than two years ago.

Dr. Vernon L. Grose, who also served as a regular commentator on CNN during its coverage of the incident, told CNS in an exclusive interview that new evidence about the explosion indicates that a possible missile detonation may have brought down the airliner, killing all 230 passengers and crew on board.

During a presentation of information Monday on the crash, Grose said he saw previously undisclosed evidence that a near-proximity missile explosion may have brought down the jet.

"It disturbed me to see photographic evidence of impinging bent in, not bent out skin of the aircraft forward of the center fuel tank, and that is sufficiently primary evidence that should be explained away."

Unlike some missiles that must make contact with or pierce a target before exploding, a near-proximity missile need only approach a target before detonation, with the ensuing shock or 'pressure wave' being sufficient to bring down the target. Grose, who spent six hours on CNN as an expert commentator the night of the explosion, said the new information indicates that a blast occurred on the outside of the aircraft, not the inside. In describing the debris recovered from around the area in which the fuel tanks are thought to have exploded, Grose said "The wreckage that they've assembled is imploded, rather than exploded at that point," indicating a pressure from outside the aircraft.

A number of people, including former aviators and aircraft accident investigators, have said that one or more missiles were responsible for the crash, and dozens of eyewitnesses have reportedly told FBI investigators that they saw what appeared to have been objects streaking through the sky toward the aircraft the night of the incident. "The idea of a pressure wave has some merit that needs to be either answered or dismissed, and that's where I felt that the NTSB had not really fully explained that," Grose said. Grose was also critical of some aspects of the FBI's handling of the case, saying the bureau's refusal to turn over complete information on eyewitness interviews hurts the investigation and generates more speculation.

One of the things Grose said that caused him to "recalibrate" his position on the cause of the crash was "the reticence of the FBI to join and expose what they learned in their interrogation of witnesses, which they cut the NTSB out of."

"If you don't come to clean resolution, you invite all kinds of conspiracy theory," Grose said. "I really object to the FBI thinking that they can keep all that they did as black secrets if in fact they endorse the center fuel tank (explosion theory)." A member of the NTSB from 1983-1984, Grose also took part in Vice President Al Gore's White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security in 1997. For two years, Grose discounted the missile theory surrounding the downing of TWA Flight 800, and even debated the issue on national television. His list of media credentials includes appearances on NBC's Today Show, ABC's Good Morning, America, and World News Tonight, and more than 100 appearances on CNN. "Even then I was holding out against both bomb and missile (theories) until we had more evidence," said Grose. But new forensic data and information alleging that the FBI suppressed eyewitness testimony has apparently provided Grose with the evidence he needed to revise his thinking on what caused the crash of TWA Flight 800.

"There's no question that the FBI shut down the investigation," Grose said.

(And if you think he's changed his mind, Here's what Mr Grose told O'Reilly immediately following the American 587 New York crash.)

GROSE: Well, I tell you, I did 170 interviews on TWA 800, probably more than anybody else. And I do think there were at times a cover-up. So I'm a little concerned about that, that it not happen here.

O'REILLY: All right, let's talk about that. You don't believe it was an accident in TWA 800?

GROSE: I still have reservations about TWA 800 as to whether the center wing tank was the initiating event. It did blow, but whether it was the initiating event,

I believe is still up for grabs.

When Vernon Grose made the statement referenced in '84' he was aligned with Cmdr William Donaldson's position. When Bob Donaldson asked me to join their group I didn't because I felt that William had gone off half cocked in saying that a missile caused a pressure wave which hit the B747 nose. A major problem was that no missile was observed exploding at the initiating event. My theory was that a missile caused a violent CCW yaw and that caused the nose to push against the adjoining air causing the altitude transducer to show a higher pressure hence an indicated lower altitude. My theory did not require an exploding missile and all FDR anomalies could be tied to the yaw coupled with a negative pitch. A KKV striking the lower left hand side of the rear fuselage could give both conditions. When looking at the positions of the sled, sub and B747 at the time of the crash a rear pursuit is illustrated. Much of the wing damage could come from hydraulic pressure within a wing full of fuel when subjected to the violent yaw. The effective center of yaw was between the engines no. 1 and 2. This is what caused the seat backs to deform to the right and decapitate the victims irrespective where they were seated. Robt Francis expressed surprise at the number of decapitations and the fact that none of the victims had been burned. Obviously, the NTSB did not look at or analyse their own data. The FDR told us what happened along with the radar but our public servants must be either incompetent or dishonest. I can't imagine spending 100M and not getting the correct answer unless they were ordered to not give the right answer. There was no need for the reconstruction or CalTech study or the missile tests off Eglin AFB. The jury was already in on the day of the crash. Having a sub crew keep quiet is no problem. None of them witnessed the intercept since they were in their steel box. The P3 crew were aware of the crash but could not prove that the sled was the culprit. The missile was not a living person and the TWA800 witnesses were all dead. Claiming that many people could have been whistleblowers is insane. Who actually witnessed the cause of the crash? Meyer, the helicopter pilot, saw events which happened while the plane was falling out of the sky. He mistook the O2 cannisters cooking off as ordnance but the cause had happened at least 15 seconds before those explosions. At least one witness saw an object make a hard turn and intercept the B747 but likely could not identify what it exactly was. Who or what besides the FDR and the radar knew what really happened? Neither the radar or FDR would be expected to show up at the Bal'mer hearings and dispute the NTSB reasoning. Boeing and TWA may have known that they were not responsible but sat there with their fingers up their butts not saying a word. Boeing likely got an oversight contract to cover the lawsuit costs. The trial lawyers were happy since they got their ill gotten gains. The survivors were sad but rich. I don't know what TWA got out of it besides the deaths of a lot of coworkers. They are now defunct as an airline since the former TWA employees are now AMR employees. Bill Clinton may have been the only person who really benefitted.