Posted on 11/26/2001 2:49:05 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
Rhetorical Questions to myself and other Catholic Apologists here:
After reading numerous threads of what I term the "Freeper Wars," I'm going to state an assumption (which might well be terribly wrong) then ask a few rhetorical questions.
If a "Freeper Wars" thread (you know the type, starts out as a thread of interest to Catholic freepers, then turns into the standard anti-Catholic posts with attempts to defend the faith by the regular Catholic Apologists here) is several days old and several hundred posts long, the "undecided" will be few.
Your apologetics are not intended to convert those whose hearts and minds are closed (although, by the Grace of God it does indeed happen). They are intended to illuminate the intellect and soul of those still open to Truth, and still willing to learn. I doubt that many of those make it to that point in threads here, i.e., when threads are 200 to 300 posts or longer, several days old, etc.
Therefore, your time is being spent only on those you are directly responding to, when they do their own self search.
Is that an effective use of your time and talent? Or would prayer, not words, be more effective at this point? Are we trying to win souls, or points of debate?
Just a few thoughts I ask myself constantly on these types of threads, i.e., where is my time better spent, reading to my kids and spending time with my spouse, or trying to convert those late on a thread whose minds and hearts are hardened? Are there enough lurkers late in a thread to make it worth the amount of time and intense effort to defend the faith that these threads usually entail late in their usual progression?
Being on a Catholic-bashing thread is sorta like when you are watching the Jerry Springer show. You just know that somebody is gonna sucker punch somebody at any minute.
Our spiritual beliefs are not readily amenable to "debate" or the simple power of logic and discussion. Neither is an internet conversation the ideal medium for evangelism. Much of the power of personal communication does not translate across a CRT and the experiential aspects of spirituality are not often shared here with each other. Instead there are attempts to logically argue the distinguishing points of one's religious preference to another and about the only "example" of how one really leads their life that becomes apparent is how one conducts themselves in the process of the debate. I find none of this particularly powerful for evangelism or apologetics.
After initially participating in those type of discussions, I have essentially taken to answering questions for people that have honest ones and to posting things to share with other Catholics.
I have learned quite a bit here through some of these threads but nothing that would change my beliefs or faith.
Arguments generally involve a stalemate. No one is impressed by arguments; I find that people are only truly impressed with sharing how the Spirit of God has worked in my life, and then open to hearing the gospel.
I have been involved in only two instances where a poster without faith became a Christian, at least in part, because of his involvement in one or more FR threads. In each instance I did what I could "from afar" to help them find a church in their local area to help them continue on their new journey.
Interestingly enough, however, both of those instances came about, not in any of the so-called Christian threads, but in the Philosophy/Theology threads. Nor did we talk about the Christian faith until they began asking questions about it.
I agree with you that such instances are rare, but I do believe if one is willing to meet people "where they are" all things are possible with God.
Peace.
American by birth, Catholic by the grace of God! Every day I thank Him for the Church. What a joy.
I dont consider myself an apologist but I like to throw my 2 cents in once in awhile. I figure that people walked away from Jesus, rejecting His message, so they certainly are not going to listen to me. I often wonder if its worth talking about too, but I've decided it is. I've had a few people convert and join the Church, what a great feeling.
I've learned alot too, especially from catholic FReepers here.
Best wishes, Cap'n.
I'm sorry to have to disagree with you. But Oh Really?? He was virulently anti-Catholic? Do you know what he did that was so virulently anti-catholic? Did he write books denouncing the Catholic Church? Preach sermons against Catholic beliefs, target Catholics for evangelism? Or was he simply a protestant who thought Catholics were wrong (and threw away his grandma's rosery after she died). I've heard of Scott Hahn and frankly I think he is full of hot air. I think that he describes himself as having been anti-catholic in order to sale tapes.
There is a RC apologist that I do respect and that is Father Mitch Pacwa (spelling?). If someone wanted to study the RC position, I would recommend him.
For people who are strong in their non-Catholic Chrisitan faiths, they have probably been strongly indocrinated into the "Catholics are evil" way of thinking (and I don't mean "evil" literally).
I think that the average protestant does not think about catholics at all, or thinks of them as just another denomination.
I have no statistics but I have heard that there has been very strong growth of evangelicals in the hispanic community both in this country and latin America.
Also gotta ask yourselves; How many people do you drive AWAY from the catholic church with your apologetics? How many solidify their views (against catholicism) based on what they read in the FReeper war posts?
I don't think that's a problem, unless you encounter a jack chick type. And for the record every faith has its share of jack chick types.
Is that a fair characterization? Actually isn't it a little manipulative to state it in such a way as to sound like the one who is unfairly attacked? Don't we post these things for one reason only, and that is to start discussion knowing that we will have peers and opponents? This sounds like a creatively worded whine to me.
Unfortunately not in the US. Most of the growth in the USA has been Christians leaving churches control by liberal heretics for Bible believing churches. The number of Adult conversions has remained very small.
I say this to hopefully motivate us to think about evangelism. And to actually try to reach the lost. Instead of assuming that people in the pews means that we are reaching our society.
That is true, but that is not doctrinaire. Jesus chose a tax gatherer, a zealot, and fishermen. Did I miss anything? He chose no priests. Should we take that as doctrinaire? How about the lack of vets? Everybody Jesus chose was a Jew. Should only Jews be leaders? Is that doctrinaire?
I'll respond to the question about female elders after I get some review time at home.
Shalom.
Yeah, me too. I think you're at the point where Paul says he does not allow a woman to have authority over a man. But this is the same Paul that says there is neither male nor female in Christ.
It's a tough situation because the Scriptural references allow both interpretations depending on where you look. Then you have to apply your "intelligence" to rectify the apparent contradiction. One viewpoint uses rectifies them one way, another rectifies them another way.
I will say this, so far I have not found a church with a woman in leadership that stands by the Bible in every other way. That either makes me wrong or it shows how hard it is to be pure in anything. I'm open to the idea that I may be wrong. Right now I still believe women can be in leadership in a church.
Shalom.
Please provide the appropriate citations from Scripture to back up this statement.
Nope!
You really believe the Evangelical churches tickle the listeners ears??
Don't get me started on the sermons I've heard in the Evangelical churches that have nothing to do with service to G-d and everything to do with how to get G-d to give you what you want out of life.
You get a much more "watered down", "easy listening" gospel at any Catholic church than at any Evangelical church.
I'm going to guess that I've been to many more churches than you have, both evangelical and liturgical. I could be wrong, but I've heard true Gospel out of both and watered-down mush out of both. It isn't the label that makes the people love G-d.
20 minute quickie masses versus 2-3 hour services twice on Sundays, etc.
Boy, I hope you're not one of those who measures the spiritual power of a service by how long it is. Those are soooooo boring they make me sick.
Much stricter list of ?do?s and don?ts?. Need I go on?
Which has the stricter list and is that good or bad?
Your God and my God are very different. Your God will go out with a whimper.
Who are you assuming "my" G-d is? There is only one G-d and only one Son by whose name we may be saved. There is only one Holy Spirit who reveals the truth to all men. Do you know of others?
Shalom.
Your question is either simplistic or just poorly worded. The faith I have is Christian; the religion in which I practice my faith happens to be Presbyterian, although I was raised in the Baptist religion, and over the years have worshipped and expressed my faith in the houses of numerous religions, including Catholic.
Too, since we're talking about the possibilities within God, why you would expect a mere human to account for those possibilities, or for God's - shall we say indulgences toward His wayward creatures - is beyond me.
Or did you mean to ask something else entirely?
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