Rhetorical Questions to myself and other Catholic Apologists here

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Rhetorical Questions to myself and other Catholic Apologists here:

After reading numerous threads of what I term the "Freeper Wars," I'm going to state an assumption (which might well be terribly wrong) then ask a few rhetorical questions.

If a "Freeper Wars" thread (you know the type, starts out as a thread of interest to Catholic freepers, then turns into the standard anti-Catholic posts with attempts to defend the faith by the regular Catholic Apologists here) is several days old and several hundred posts long, the "undecided" will be few.

Your apologetics are not intended to convert those whose hearts and minds are closed (although, by the Grace of God it does indeed happen). They are intended to illuminate the intellect and soul of those still open to Truth, and still willing to learn. I doubt that many of those make it to that point in threads here, i.e., when threads are 200 to 300 posts or longer, several days old, etc.

Therefore, your time is being spent only on those you are directly responding to, when they do their own self search.

Is that an effective use of your time and talent? Or would prayer, not words, be more effective at this point? Are we trying to win souls, or points of debate?

Just a few thoughts I ask myself constantly on these types of threads, i.e., where is my time better spent, reading to my kids and spending time with my spouse, or trying to convert those late on a thread whose minds and hearts are hardened? Are there enough lurkers late in a thread to make it worth the amount of time and intense effort to defend the faith that these threads usually entail late in their usual progression?

[Aquinasfan]

He felt his calling was to get them into the great hallway of the Faith; once there, they could each choose the doorway (denomination) where they were most comfortable.

Actually, that's the only problem I had with Lewis. ;-)

[Psalm 73]

"If it ain't in the Bible, it's a cult."

Going by your definition, any denomination that allows women ministers, does not take a HARD stand on abortion, pussy-foots with homosexuals, etc, is a cult.
You are saying that Lutherans, Epsiscopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists are cults?
The only thing that is important is my relationship with Jesus Christ, everthing else is just people stuff.
I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins, and believe that Jesus christ is my Lord anbd Saviour and is the ONLY way to salvation.
What else is there, really? Do you mean I am not doing it right?
Unless we all belong to whatever church you belong to, we are all going to hell?
Is it salvation through "packrat01" ? Oh, my, I had better start following you!

[logos]

Actually, that's the only problem I had with Lewis. ;-)

Hey, even the great C.S. couldn't please everyone. :)

[But, then, I think he was only trying to please One...]

[ArGee]

Going by your definition, any denomination that allows women ministers

I'll give you everything but this one. There are women who are decons and elders in the New Testament.

Shalom.

[joathome]

"My favorite thing to do for people I meet who are open to Catholicism is to recommend Scott Hahn books/tapes."

In fact, may I point out that Scott Hahn did nothing to keep me in the Catholic Church in the long run? Sure, it was great to see/hear him speak, along with Steve Wood, and others. I appreciate their pro-life work, along with HLI. We still have a lot of stuff by Hahn and Wood. Finally.......someone who could preach something other than the love-everybody pap we were getting in our local Catholic Church. :(

In the end, however, regardless of how charming the speakers were, regardless of how they seemed to know the subject matter, I still grew to disbelieve. I just cannot believe dogmas created from obscure passages of scripure.

We practically had a Catholic library, attended Mass daily ("Is he following the rubrics? Is this mass valid?" sigh), said the rosary, loved my Mary statues ("Isn't "she" beautiful?"), homeschooled with Seton one year.........

I just don't believe that the Catholic Church is the one true church. If the Catholic Church is the one true church that never changes, Vatican II certainly changed it. According to VII, people of goodwill who do not know the Lord "may" be saved, but anyone who knows the truth, but rejects it (me?), may not be saved. This is certainly a change from previous councils. At one time, no one outside the church could be saved. Then, we had the "lifeboat" theory. I know. I know....."understanding" grew. Well, the councils were not silent while "understanding" grew. They made some pretty clear declarations on "who" was anathema and who wasn't. Frankly, there have been other "changes" in the unchanging church as well.....but hints of universalism was a biggie, in my book. And if the church post Vatican II isn't the one true church, where is it?

And no, that's not the reason we left. The universalism thing is only a minor blip on the screen. I simply couldn't figure out why any Jew would have wanted to change one system for another. Where was the "gospel", the "good news?" Frankly, I would have found it easier simply to remain a Jew, than to commit to what the "true church" had become. If one really believes in pergatory, and really believes in indulgences, one can certainly become entrapped in a system of getting time off for kissing one's bible, saying the rosary, etc., etc. And if that stuff really "works", one would be a fool not to avail oneself of every indulgence available. Of course, I never believed to that point. I know many who did, however.

I write with no anomosity. I hope you are not reading sarcasm into my message. There is none.

[AmericaUnited]

Of course there will be people who worship their denomination more than they worship the Christ whom their denomination was established to serve

BINGO!!!

[Marylander]

I have decided to ask just one question of bigots. The question is essentially the same for both anti-Americans and anti-Catholics. "Can you name a country that has done more good in the world?" and "Is there a religion that has done more good?"

I think focussing on the faults of institutions and individuals can blind people to the good they may have done, but the good may be more important. All institutions and individuals are faulty or sinful, but some have done a lot of good and that's not easy in this world.

[joathome]

"I'll give you everything but this one. There are women who are decons and elders in the New Testament."

Please do point out the women elders in the New Testament. As far as women deacons, yes I do believe there were women deacons. However, while deacons and elders both share a common service to their Lord, only elders have responsibility for leadership. That's a mighty big difference. And if your passage is just a might "questionable".......well, Jesus made it pretty clear that he chose only men to lead. Have a nice day. :) Shalom.

[tiki]

I struggle with that all the time. Sometimes it is the invincible ignorance of Catholic bashers that makes me reply and sometimes it is the hatred. Very often, I hit the reply button, type a message and then just erase it with a prayer to God to enlighten their minds or if I'm wrong, then to please show me the right way. I really don't care if they believe what the Catholic Church teaches but I hate it when they are so mean!

[ArGee]

BINGO!!!

So you're Catholic then? ;)

So sorry, couldn't resist.

Shalom.

[AKA Elena]

My comments on this thread --as well as any LONG threads on Catholicism and its defense would be one or two -- one on explanation and a second (if any) which would border on anger, and a follow-up which, if any, does ring with anger and insult, because there are many who choose to deny, denigrate, etc. the Catholic Faith.

Continuing to defend becomes an exercise in futility and results in feelings that lack in Charity, to say the least.

Your answer is interesting -- so in brief, I will respond to your own sheltered life from other sects of Christianity which do defile the Catholic Church.

For social and easy reasons, one of my adult children attends a Fundamental Christian church ... her children take part in the "Theatrical Presentations" of that church about two or three times a year.

I have always attended their "plays" (perhaps, three so far) -- but will no longer ... to their dismay -- as their half-brother (in my Guardianship) and I walked out on the last one, after about ten minutes. In that time the "script" had led up to a song of praise for Martin Luther and his nailing of his challenge of the Faith (schism and heresy), on the doors of the Church with a refrain of "nya, nya, nya, nya, nya nya" -- and verbal scorn, disrespect and hatred for the Pope and the Catholic Church.

These two grandchildren are being indoctrinated in anti-Catholicism, there is absolutely no doubt about it!

Their congregation is a First Assembly of God -- but the "pageant/play" is one that goes around in many fundamental churches.

[Psalm 73]

"There are women who are decons and elders in the New Testament."

Ah, yes, but that is far different from a "minister, pastor, or priest"
A women is not supposed to be the one to lead a congregation.
(I'm at work and don't have my Bible Concordance with me, so I'm shy of scripture refs).

[RnMomof7]

With the exception of supposed "former Catholics" (who are obsessed with Roman Catholicism), nothing could be further from the truth.

You are probably right Jim as a "former Catholic" I know the error first hand and I fear for the souls bound by Rome.

So many very good people..that I really like..are going to hell out of ignorance or pride..

[dsmatuska]

And if the church post Vatican II isn't the one true church, where is it?

The Eastern Orthodox Church. We have various flavors: Greek, Serbian, Syrian, Ukrainian. The only difference in Orthodoxy is what they serve at their Coffee Hour and Festivals...and the calendar. Oh, don't go there!

[AmericaUnited]

EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY HAS EXPLODED in the last 30 years.

I'm not sure this is relevant. In the end times, the only church that true believers will want to attend will be those that are dying. Popular churches will be those that tickle the ears of the attenders without teaching any of the true doctrine of the faith.

You've got to be kidding. You really believe the Evangelical churches tickle the listeners ears?? You get a much more "watered down”, “easy listening" gospel at any Catholic church than at any Evangelical church. 20 minute quickie masses versus 2-3 hour services twice on Sundays, etc. Much stricter list of “do’s and don’ts”. Need I go on?

Your God and my God are very different. Your God will go out with a whimper.

My God will go out with a tremendous, final, last outpouring of His Spirit, to keep as many as possible from perishing. My God will live up to his promise given in the following: "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound". As wickedness increases in these last days, (as we both agree) so will his grace.

[joathome]

"and the calendar"

Actually, the Catholic calendar is the only thing I miss about Catholicism. My church doesn't really have a clear Lent and Advent. I do miss the seasons of the church. That's about it, I'm afraid.

[wai-ming]

Bump to Religion list

[arthurus]

yes I do believe there were women deacons.

Women "deacons" were chosen to work with the women among the people in the matter of
baptisms and such as it was regarded as unseemly for men to to put their hands on the women.
Very early baptisms of adults were done by immersion which requires more hands-on
than does sprinkling or placing a hands on heads.

[stuartcr]

Why is it then, that those who have faith in, and believe in one, true God, but do not follow any of the tenets of established religions, get flamed so much on FreeRepublic?

[joathome]

"tickling of the ears?

My pastor just did a two week indepth study on morality (fornication, adultery) becuase one of our members just left his wife. He has been expelled from the community of believers, with the admonition that we are to continue to love him and pray for his return.

There is nothing in my church that tickles the ears.