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1 posted on 11/16/2001 1:21:47 PM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I ain't goin' along with the "it fell apart because it hit wind" story...
2 posted on 11/16/2001 1:21:48 PM PST by Libloather
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I can see how if the stabilizer fell off it would send the plane into a spin, but that doesnt explain the smoke.
3 posted on 11/16/2001 1:21:48 PM PST by Husker24
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To: FallGuy; Travis McGee
ping
5 posted on 11/16/2001 1:21:49 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
And the JetBlue pilot is currently being "debriefed" by all appropriate 3-letter government agencies.
8 posted on 11/16/2001 1:21:50 PM PST by July 4th
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I heard one of the federal agency guys, during a press briefing this morning, say that a “commercial pilot” who was in the air at the time, saw it all happen and radioed in the information as it happened. The federal guy said they were going to interview that pilot.
9 posted on 11/16/2001 1:21:51 PM PST by Fred25
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
It's going to take a wide open, undeniable show stopper of a plane crash like 9-11 on live TV in order for us to have another officially sanctioned terrorist attack involving commercial transport aircraft.

The airlines simply have too much to lose; uncle sam already gave 15 billion and wants to tighten the purse strings. Not to mention the public fear factor.

15 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:00 PM PST by RightlySo
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Talked to an airline Captain I know, and he said a few interesting things.

1. He won't bid the Airbus. Says the French computer will override the Captain in extreme situations and will not allow you to fly out of extreme danger situations.

2. The pin that holds the rudder on is made of a plastic composite. It was done instead of aluminum because it is lighter weight and just as strong. However, Captain says, the failure of such material is poorly understood. It can degenerate from UV light, hence it can only be painted white. It can go fine for five years or so and then suddenly go from 99% strength to 20% without warning.

3. Most American Airline airbus planes are flying from NY to the Islands because they can haul large cargo packages and are money makers on those routes even without passenger loads. They aren't flying many on any other routes.

4. The planes that were recently retired from AA fleet due to cutting routes were Boeing planes that were scheduled for retirement in the next couple years anyway, but could be brought back to replace airbus planes if AA grounds the airbus fleet.

5. He conjectures that the rudder started to come loose from failure of the Von epoxy (whatever I can't remember) material of the pin, and it was the rudder flapping that causes the airframe shudder, not wake turbulence. The torque of the flapping rudder caused the plane to veer back and forth to the point that the engines came loose and one maybe took a wing with it.
When the Captain tried to make the drastic maneuvers necessary to regain a semblance of control, the French computer overrode him.

18 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:01 PM PST by patriciaruth
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
...just heard a 'follow-up' on the FNC. They mentioned that the Data Recorder revealed that the plane had 'rolled onto it's Left Side' on the way down....

What is more likely....
1) The Port Side Engine seperating....

..or..
2) The Port Side Wing seperating.......as was reported by many eyes on the skies....


.......just curious.....

22 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:03 PM PST by Alabama_Wild_Man
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Witnesses said they heard a popping sound, and there was a fire at the base of the wing. That would explain the smoke trail as the plane was diving.
I doubt if the tail falling off would cause a fire in the armpit of the wing.
28 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:06 PM PST by concerned about politics
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
All of your airplanes are belong to us.
38 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:29 PM PST by EuroFrog
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
The NTSB's job is NOT to find the cause of accidents.

The NTSB's job is TO PROVE WHY ITS SAFE TO FLY.

If they need help, the FBI and CIA are there to assist. The real potential of a catastrophic economic collapse due to airliners falling from the sky is a matter of NATIONAL SECURITY.

Truth is always sacrificed in the name of National Security.

That's the answer to this and future airliner 'accidents'.

43 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:43 PM PST by Silvertip
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I am greatly relieved that it is simply an unexplained and sudden disintegration of an airliner shortly after take-off. I was fearing it was something serious like terrorists. Airline passengers should be able to relax now.
47 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:45 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
The pilot told the JetBlue officials that in its final moments American Airlines Flight 587 appeared to be in a very steep descent, falling nose down at about 80 degrees in a spiral dive.

Pilots are taught this maneuver as part of training. If memory serves, you need about 1000-1500 feet to recover properly. During this, you are feeling about 4G's. That should be nothing for the average commercial pilot. The only problem would be if there was no fin. Without a rudder, it's near impossible to recover from a spiral dive. The only way you lose rudder control, is if you lose the controls (electronics on an A300) or if you have no vertical fin.

The story so far, as far as I know, is that there was minor wake turbulence after takeoff, the fin hit the water shortly after that, one engine fell off shortly after, and then the aircraft hit the ground in Queens. These things are built to withstand minor turbulence, and spiral dives. In my mind, there's two ways this could have happened, mechanical sabotage, or the wake turbulence caused it. Which is quite plausable.

I'll use an example of a Cessna 172 (small aircraft, approximately a 40 foot wingspan) taking off immediately after a Boeing 747. The wingtip vortices coming off the ends of the wings on the 747 are large, think of horizontal tornadoes, spinning in opposite directions. If there's no crosswind, the disturbed air will stay disturbed for a while. If the next aircraft was a 747, it would be fine, as it's wings are built to handle the stresses of taking off in high winds, but our little Cessna, holding short on the taxiway, will get it's wings ripped off after only 3 or 4 seconds in the air. The pilot will experience extreme buffetting before he hits the ground again, possibly belly up.

I know this will bring all you conspiracy theorists down, but wake turbulence could be the answer. If the aircraft taking off ahead of the A300 was larger than it by more than, say 20 feet of wingspan, there would be enough wake turbulence to seal the fate of the flight. In the end, this is a judgement call on behalf of the pilot, as he could've asked for a FOD run to waste time, and allow the vortices to clear.

59 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:50 PM PST by AntiKev
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Was the smoke coming from the plane before the tail fell off?
63 posted on 11/16/2001 1:22:53 PM PST by gopgirl
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
hmmmm
69 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:05 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
But, but, they discounted the fire before crash story, you know, unreliability of eyewitness versus the reliability of federal non-eyewitnesses?
115 posted on 11/17/2001 3:20:59 AM PST by aruanan
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