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Air Turbulence May Be Factor in Jetliner Crash, Officials Say
New York Times ^ | 11/14/01 | SHERRI DAY

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:39 PM PST by kattracks

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1 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:40 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
Air Turbulence May Be Factor in Jetliner Crash, Officials Say

Yea Right, more likley OBL friends are the real factor in this crash.

2 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:43 PM PST by KQQL
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To: kattracks
Today's analysis of the air traffic control tower's radar data seemed to show that air turbulence could have been a factor

There's air turbulence every day. Why doesn't air turbulence cause crashes like this every day? I have a feeling there are some other factors.

3 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:43 PM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman
the fix is in, they are going to lie again.
4 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:44 PM PST by KQQL
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To: KQQL
the fix is in, they are going to lie again.

They showed 2nd black box "damaged" on TV this morning, so data can not be read. If the black box gets damaged from the fall from 1000 feet the only way it was "damaged" could be by explosion.

The fix is in they are already lying.

5 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:46 PM PST by Anticommie
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To: kattracks
Air Turbulence...???

They are really trying to spin it now. Do they really expect us to believe that???

6 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:48 PM PST by chainsaw
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To: chainsaw
They are really trying to spin it now. Do they really expect us to believe that???

They've gotten better at their lying BS and they've gotten the pilots on board with them...

The spin began with the PILOT right before the plane went down mentioning turbulence on the cockpit voice recorder, that's how effective the NTSB spin machine is now...they must have threatened the pilots family on the radio to get him to say something about "turbulence" instead of "terrorists" in the planes' last minute.

7 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:51 PM PST by John H K
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To: kattracks
I thought the "black boxes " were supposedly beefed up to withstand crashes. AND how does air turbulence remove a rudder section without major damage to the frame?

Boy I smell it from here.

8 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:51 PM PST by chadsworth
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To: chadsworth
I thought the "black boxes " were supposedly beefed up to withstand crashes

The black box was fine. the interface for getting the data out easily was damaged, meaning you couldn't simply just plug it in and get the data. They sent it to the manufacturer and got the data out.

9 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:52 PM PST by John H K
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To: John H K
Thanks - makes sense

Now if the "truth " will just be told. Whatever the story is will be shaped to protect the travelers attitude toward flying.

10 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:54 PM PST by chadsworth
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To: kattracks
Do you know if this one (Flight 587) is on a bump list yet?
11 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:55 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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To: chadsworth
No, the story will be the most logical cause of the crash based on avaliable evidence.
12 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:55 PM PST by John H K
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To: kattracks
That could have been the Japan Airlines flight, which was four miles away, or about 800 feet higher.

This is an obvious red herring. Wake vortices sink and spread outward from the path of the plane that generates them (although wind will affect it).

Both planes were in a climb profile, typically at thousands of feet per minute. If there was only 800 feet difference in altitude at four miles separation, the AA flight would have beeen well above the actual path taken by the JA flight.

However, there is a possibility that the either flight leveled out briefly during climbout. The standard departure from Newark requires that a plane not exceed a certain altitude without further clearance, to avoid conflict with incoming traffic. I don't have access to SIDS for JFK, so I don't know it is the same there.

Perhaps we will see the actual path and altitude, as the information is publicly available from http://www.flightexplorer.com/.

13 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:56 PM PST by justlurking
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To: John H K
Well- congratulations on having faith in the reports. I respectfully disagree.

The past history of reports in the past have shown them to be unreliable and I personally don't feel comfortable that the truth will be told. Just my opinion.

14 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:56 PM PST by chadsworth
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To: kattracks
anyone have an idea if, or when, they release transcripts of the VDR?
15 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:56 PM PST by demsux
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To: John H K
The black box was fine. the interface for getting the data out easily was damaged, meaning you couldn't simply just plug it in and get the data. They sent it to the manufacturer and got the data out.

This doesn't match the report at the NTSB press conference today. What is your source for your assertion that the "black box was fine," and the "interface was damaged"? How is data extracted from a flight data recorder? Tell us.

16 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:57 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: justlurking
This is an obvious red herring. Wake vortices sink and spread outward from the path of the plane that generates them (although wind will affect it).

This latest scenario to attempt to vindicate the apparent "Holy Grail" of a "mechanical failure" explanation for Fl. 587 apparently derives from a comment one of the pilots made on the voice recorder before the crash. I'd like to know what the exact words were. I'd also like to know if a pilot would normally open the engine throttles full out, the way these pilots allegedly did or tried to do, in response to such turbulence. I don't claim to be a pilot, but I've been in a plane going through turbulence many times before, and I don't ever recall the pilot trying to "gun it" through the bumps.

17 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:05 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: kattracks; All
Has anyone brought up the subject of terrorism using directional EMP weapons? I don't have time now to do a good search for a refresher on the symptoms of an EMP-attacked plane, but I did have this in my files:

TERRORIST THREATS TO THE UNITED STATES

Excerpt:

An electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack could incapacitate power grids, communications, computer systems, and even electronic infrastructure that makes modern society possible. Terrorists will also build or acquire radio frequency weapons and use them for nonnuclear devices to selectively damage crucial parts of the United States' electronic infrastructure.

For example, a radio frequency weapon detonated on Wall Street could erase electronic business records and cause billions of dollars worth of damage to the U.S. economy, and, in fact, bring it to a halt, or a relatively small radio frequency weapon built from readily available technology could be used by terrorists parked at the end of the airport runway to debilitate airplanes taking off or landing.


18 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:06 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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To: Map Kernow
Well, perhaps more accurately, the casing is damaged meaning the interface is damaged, but the recorder itself is fine....they got the data off the FDR today.

A lot of weird mechanical or structural crap has downed or damaged airplanes.

19 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:06 PM PST by John H K
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To: Nita Nupress
You forgot the most important tool in your box!

A fresh roll of reynolds wrap!

Magic-pulse weapons and secret death rays are useless without it!~

20 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:10 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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