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Investigators Find Signs Birdstrike May Have Caused Crash of Flight 587
Wall Street Journal ^ | November 13, 2001 | SCOTT MCCARTNEY

Posted on 11/13/2001 5:57:06 AM PST by Axion

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:45:41 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: anniegetyourgun
Re: Bush lying: I don't think Bush has had anything to say about this yet. Right now it is the pukes at the NTSB who are doing the "Nothing-to-see-here" shuffle.

That must have been one heck of a big bird. Maybe a radioactive mutant bird from Mars. Or a previously-thought to-be-extinct Pterodactyl, 100 feet across.

Oh! Oh! I got it! Airport security was so tight that the Tally-bunnies couldn't smuggle any bombs on board, so they strapped plastique to specially trained geese, and had them attack the plane on take-off. Kind of like Day of the Dolphin, only with birds instead. Yeah, that's the ticket!

61 posted on 11/13/2001 6:24:38 AM PST by gridlock
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To: Axion
Did the birds have long beards?? I find this a hard "coincidence" to digest. It's *possible,* but I will never believe with 100% certainty that this was an accident. But if the Gov. can spin it as an accident successfully, I believe they will.
62 posted on 11/13/2001 6:24:45 AM PST by ClayHellion
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To: Hildy
I'm serious when I ask you why don't you believe this? It's happened before.

Because the tail section fell off first.

63 posted on 11/13/2001 6:24:51 AM PST by EggsAckley
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To: Axion
I swear it was not me...
64 posted on 11/13/2001 6:25:26 AM PST by fod
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To: Axion
It's time for Dubya and Ashcroft going to round up and deport the birds.
65 posted on 11/13/2001 6:25:33 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Axion
Birds have feeling too, ya know.
66 posted on 11/13/2001 6:26:00 AM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Equality 7-2521
"My experience with birdstrikes is limited to military aircraft where the pilot can eject, but in a majority of birdstrikes the plane is destroyed."

Catastrophic failure of the engine turbine could occur if the ingested birds are large enough. The odds of both engines failing through bird ingestion? Could happen.

67 posted on 11/13/2001 6:26:41 AM PST by ScreamingFist
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To: Woodkirk
No dead birds don't shear off tail sections but a seperated engine could.
68 posted on 11/13/2001 6:26:56 AM PST by RetiredNavy
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To: concerned about politics
You mean to tell me a flockin' bird took the plane down? Pleeeease!

I am an airline pilot for a major airline, and I can tell you that it is EASY for a flock of birds to bring down a plane. I has happened before, and it is why every major airport has bird advisories when there are birds observed to be in the vincinity. It may or may not be the cause of this, but it is not only plausible, it is extremely so.
69 posted on 11/13/2001 6:27:07 AM PST by safisoft
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To: steve-b
a bird....a bird....what a world..there is no hope...
70 posted on 11/13/2001 6:27:26 AM PST by MetalHeadConservative35
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To: EggsAckley
"Because the tail section fell off first"

Where did you read this?

71 posted on 11/13/2001 6:27:55 AM PST by ScreamingFist
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To: steve-b
For your foreign object damage assessing pleasure, I recommend this website: click here.

Interesting site.

72 posted on 11/13/2001 6:28:05 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: mewzilla
JFK Airport and the "Magic Bird" theory?
73 posted on 11/13/2001 6:28:39 AM PST by awestk
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To: Axion
May sound funny but it's definitely possible. I have a friend who was a test engineer at Pratt & Whitney, which is in my back yard. Back in the 70's and 80's, they used to throw live seagulls (1. because they are plentiful and 2. because that is what the planes are most likely to encounter) into the engines while running them on the test stands.

Well, they ran into problems with the DEP and the animal rights nazi's over their use of live seagulls in the engine tests. That combined with some internal grumblings on the havoc the seagulls would wreak on the engines during the test probably helped end the practice. The nuts, bolts, rocks, shards of metal, etc. that the seagulls ingested does a number on the precision machined innards of a jet engine.

So, Pratt began testing with cleaned chicken carcasses. Afterall, a bird test is a bird test, right? Sure, weight and body size were about the same. But chickens tend to fill themselves up with grains and cracked corn which their little stomachs do a very good job of digesting, thus making them very easy to puree. Obviously, a jet isn't going to encounter a flock of chickens flying throught the air. But that aside, a far more real world test would be the continued use of seagulls, stomach contents and all. If the engine can't survive a seagull test in controlled test conditions, what makes one think it will perform any better in real world situations.

I know these were GE engines, I would guess their situation is very much similar.

74 posted on 11/13/2001 6:28:56 AM PST by LoneGOPinCT
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To: Axion
The problem is that this is in the WSJ.

If it was Debka, News Max or World Net Daily, the whackos posting on this thread would believe it.

The possibility of ingestion of foreign objects is derided, yet yesterday, there were people seriously discussing the possibility that this plane was brought down by a person or persons with a hand held rifle.

Anything far fetched or conspiratorial is seriously entertained, while the mundane is immediately rejected. I guess that's half the fun of being in junior high.

75 posted on 11/13/2001 6:29:20 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: Axion
Maybe it wasn't a bird that struck the engine.

Here's a shooting scenario to consider, the intention being to cause a catostrophic failure of an engine on take off leading to a crash.

I would envision a (hypothetical) runway sniper using a van soundproofed on the inside with cheap foam mattresses. The exact shooting position would be determined in advance so that a shooting chair and rifle rest could be set up inside the van in advance. The shot could be taken through a removed small rear door window.

The shooter would drive to his pre-determined road side parking place, get in the chair, and use his 12 or 20 power off-the-shelf scope to observe the jets as they turned into the take off position. Seeing the big twin engine jet with the American Airlines logo, he would have plenty of time to settle in for his one and only shot. He would pick a twin engine, to maximize the chance of causing a crash after shooting one engine.

Since he would not be placing a bomb on a specific plane, but merely shooting the first large twin engine American Airlines jet to turn his way, that would explain why the jet to the DomRep was hit. It was just the luck of the draw. (This is just a hypothesis!!)

As the jet races down the runway straight towards him, he holds his crosshairs just above the center of the 12 foot diameter engine. As the wheels come off the tarmac, he fires. Even a .30 caliber slug through the engine turbines could cause the massive failure he seeks, a .50 caliber would ensure it.

If the jet lands right on him, he screams "Allah Akbar" with a big grin on his face, and goes to collect his 72 virgins right away.

If the jet crashes beyond him or not at all, he gets back into his driver's seat, and checks his map for the route to Logan, Dulles, O'hare or Miami International.

*******************************

So why do I go to the trouble of pitching this hypothesis? Because even if there was no sniper at the end of the runway at JFK today, there might be next week. The national guardsmen standing around looking scary in the terminals doing nothing but providing pseudo-security PR, should instead be patrolling the airport runway approaches with their M-16A2s, looking for my hypothetical but entirely possible (even likely) snipers.

What are they doing in the terminals anyway? Looking for hidden boxcutters with their Superman X-ray eyes?

76 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:01 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: EggsAckley
The problem is that you never will hear it. The NTSB is not off the hook. Both the GE CF56 and the GE 90 can withstand a SEA of pelicans! I'm looking for the link showing a clip of 2 FROZEN 20 lb turkeys being let go mechanically into the mouth of one of these suckers. It just spits it out in a fog. The NTSB is counting on the technical ignorance of the general population to float this lie. Bird strikes are not a viable source of FOD resulting in a MAJOR mechanical failure/fire/engine separation in this day and age; the only way they become a legitimate candidate is with some VERY OLD airframes. Granted, an engine could be shutdown on vibs (vibrations) due to birdstrike and possibly restarted, but how do we explain the tail in the drink before the plane reached land, or the massive explosion and subsequent fire?

This has the smell of a Clinton debacle. God Help Us............please.

77 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:08 AM PST by Nimitz
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To: Axion
Birds can be dangerous! Especially if you ride a roller coaster and you are Fabio!
picture
78 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:17 AM PST by StockAyatollah
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To: safisoft
I wonder if New Yorkers will start pidgeon hunting? "The Saturday Night Pidgeon Massacre."
79 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:20 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Axion
When Pig Ladens group takes credit for blowing up this plane, someones gonna be eating crow!
80 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:57 AM PST by concerned about politics
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