ABC Radio News Reporting That Anthrax Spore Coating Used by Iraq

ABC Radio News ^ | 10/26/01 | ABC

[randita]

ABC Radio News just reported that the coating on anthrax spores found in Sen. Daschle's office was the coating used by Iraq. Nothing further.

[El Gato]

We can go to Afghanistan, but it the military prepared for 2 campaigns at the same time after the last admin ruined our military?

Remember the Navy is generating most of the bombing sorties, with a few big Air Force bombers operating out of Diego Garcia in the Indian ocean. Lots of Air Force fighters, figher bombers, and more big bombers available. Some of them perhaps crowding bases in Turkey and maybe Kuwait or other Gulf state, as we type. The only question is, do we have enough bombs and other munitions? If we use use Nukes, we have plenty.

[CedarDave]

...the anthrax in the tainted letter sent to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle was laced with bentonite. The potent additive...

LOL!! I have never known bentonite to be "potent"!! Sticky (when wetted), yes.

However, there is one point not mentioned here. Bentonite is a swelling clay, and the reason is that when wetted there is an electrostatic reaction between the clays and the salts in water which creates a swelling pressure. The reason for the reaction is that native clay molecules have unbalanced negative charges in their atomic structure. As the clay particles come in contact with each other, they repel each other (like charges repel, opposite charges attract). Therefore, if someone can coat the spores with a thin bentonite coating, the electrostatic charges (though very weak) will cause dispersal of the spores versus clumping.

(BTW, if you want to see bentonite swelling in action, take a solid tablet and drop it in water and see how it swells slightly as it decomposes.)

[aristeides]

Thanks. The story is still at your ABC link. However, the bad link at the home site might be the result of influence exercised to suppress the story.

[El Gato]

You're right, it could be both Iraq and a group of native nuts, of most any variety. Eco-freaks, PETA, various sorts of Neo Nazi's or Neo Communists. However, we have no indication that anyone from those groups met with Iraqi diplomats or agents, we do have such an indication with respect to Mr. Atta, who vaporised himself on 9-11 at the controls of big Boeing bird.

Either way, "Saddam" is now "Mudd" (glowing mud at that)

[gumbo]

LOL!! I have never known bentonite to be "potent"!!

Well, what do you expect -- they're journalists.

[CedarDave]

More trivia. Bentonite as a sealer won't work when the fluid is non-polar. For example, if you line a landfill with bentonite (before it was prohibited by the Feds) and expect it to retard oil and gasoline fluids (non-polar), it won't work because the fluids won't cause bentonite to expand as with water (polar).

[Think free or die]

"when wetted there is an electrostatic reaction between the clays and the salts in water which creates a swelling pressure:

Am I right to assume that these coated spores would have a harder time dispersing in an environment with high humidity? If so, it might offer an additional means to somewhat reduce the hazard for workers who are currently at greatest risk.

[CedarDave]

I see your point, but honestly can't answer that since I'm not that much into soil-clay-water interaction. (It's a whole field unto itself (soil physics) and courses are taught at many universities. I'm just a lowly hydrogeologist.)

It may be a lot like dust in a room. When it's extremely dry, it's a lot more likely to be flying about. On the other hand, moisture and warmth is what causes the bacteria to "sprout".

[kingh99]

TLC claims Zacharias Mossauri (sic) was the leader planned for flight 93. Instead he was nabbed and the little pussies left to do the job got their asses kicked by the passengers. With that stocky bastard on the flight they might have hit their target. Today we could be looking at a smoking hole where the Capitol or Whitehouse once stood. How history was changed. We are under a coordinated attack by the pan arab states right now. It's a jealousy thing. This country, every major city has loyal members of Al Queda ready to carry out their mission. We need Federal Marshall law and a suspension of all rights for persons suspected of terrorism. Err on the side of conservatism. If we incarcerate some innocents it is well worth it.

[LouD]

Really, it doesn't matter if Iraq is culpable or not. If they didn't do it, it's certainly not from lack of desire. They've pursued WMDs for a long time, and it's pretty clear that when they get their hands on a nuke, they're not going to play by the rules of diplomacy. In the interest of self-defense, we must preemptively strike Iraq, and utterly destroy them. And I don't give a rat's ass how much plausible deniability they've been able to create. I don't even care if they're guilty.

I'm really getting tired of all the damned namby-pamby sh*t I keep hearing about how we need to establish guilt, and we can't hurt any non-combatants, blah, blah, blah... SCREW THAT!

Nobody wants to intentionally hurt civilians, except our enemies, who don't seem to share our qualms about it, and the half of the population of the middle east that seems to think American civilian casualties are just fine. OK, if that's what they want, LET'S BLOODY WELL GIVE IT TO THEM...

And I don't want to hear any damned crap about how "that will make us just like them" - That's untrue, on account of the fact that THEY'LL BE DEAD AND WE'LL BE ALIVE and not the other way around.

Nuke them. Nuke them now.

[Hit & Run Poster]

"Bush administration is spinning hard to avoid blaming this on Iraq because consequences are inevitable."

*****

Nope, they've raised the bar of proof way up there, so that even Peter Jennings will eventually get it.

[randita]

You state: The Iraqi process uses a variety of clays dolomite, benonite, etc in a unique drying process that keeps the spores from clumping and airborne longer.

Ari Fleisher denies "benonite" specifically, but you mention other similar clays used in the Iraqi process. Perhaps Fleisher is pulling a "Clinton" on us--parsing his words very carefully. The denial of benonite doesn't rule out other clays used by Iraq, if I'm reading Fleisher's comments correctly.

The prompt denial tells us one thing -- the White House is most likely not responsible for the leaking of this info. It must have come from someplace else--esp. since ABC claims to have "several sources" for the report.

My money's still on Iraq.

[Hit & Run Poster]

Clancy has his hero accidental President hightly reluctant to use nukes. You think for once, Clancy may actually be BEHIND the curve?

[dread78645]

No ...I think the administration gave the WP a statement that ... inept newsies would misinterpret.

Off topic folks, but frankly, I think this is all funny as hell. Remember the sociocRAT media "dumb George" remarks:

"Chenny's pupil"
"he'll embarrass the US in Europe
"can't pronounce a sombody's name" (lack of vowels)
"frat-boy waiting to grow up"

By my lights, it seems the media is bamboozled here; George (& friends) are way past 'em.

[Life of Brian]

It is known that Iraq obtained anthrax cultures, for example -- quite legally -- from the American Type Culture Centre (ATCC) in the 1980s at a time when the West tacitly supported the regime. No questions were asked.

[roughrider]

The fact that Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence agent isn't half as bad as the fact that FOUR federal agencies had their hands on him and let him walk. When he first got here, on a TOURIST visa, he was asked by immigration what his plans were as a tourist, and Atta told them he was going to learn how to fly. He was detained for a awhile and then released. Atta left a stalled plane on a runway in Florida, jamming up the airport for hours. The FAA investigated and found out his name and address. They did nothing. Two other times the Feds had him. I'm beginning to think they would have let Atta go even if he proclaimed: "Hi! I'm Mohammed Atta, a Muslim killer. I have anthrax in my luggage!"

[Alamo-Girl]

Yes indeed! Thanks for the heads up!

[aruanan]

The Washington Post reported yesterday that the spores in the Daschle letter had been treated with a chemical additive using technology so sophisticated that it almost certainly came from the United States, Iraq or the former Soviet Union. A government official with direct knowledge of the investigation has said that the totality of the evidence so far suggests it is unlikely the spores were originally produced in the former Soviet Union or Iraq.

The operative words in this sentence are "originally produced". This is referring to their genetic provenance, not where they most recently came from, ie., where they were processed with the additive. That appears to have been Iraq.

[tristero]

The Brokaw letter was postmarked in Trenton, NJ on 9/18/01. The Daschle letter was postmarked in Trenton on 10/9/01. Does anyone know the relative humidity in Trenton on those days? Downstream in the mail system on the days following? Maybe this had something to do with the different properties of the anthrax in the two letters.

[Sabertooth]

Bush administration is spinning hard to avoid blaming this on Iraq because consequences are inevitable.

I disagree. They're spinning hard to delay the Showdown with Sadaam.

How do we know it's delay and not avoid?

Because we keep hearing from President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld that this war is going to last years. I don't think so... not in the Afghanistan Campaign it isn't.

So there's more. Recall the deal we just cut with Iran, allowing for our pilots to crash-land in their territory, and they would do humanitarian rescue. Between the lines, that means we're getting use of their airspace, since only if a pilot is shot down there would anyone know we were there. This gives Iran a built-in out against the radicals if this should happen,

Why are we doing this with them? Not for Afghanistan. This is for Iraq, whom Iran hates. Remember that during the Gulf War in '90-'91, Bush the Elder neglected to bring Iran into the coalition, and Sadaam pulled off a deal to stash the bulk of his air force in Iran just prior to Desert Storm. Dubya isn't repeating that mistake, and Iran recognizes that a bio, chem ,and possibly nuke-capable Sadaam isn't in their long-term or short term best interests.

So why delay, and not strike?

In addition to the logistics abroad, consider:

We're under bio-attack. A biological WMD has been used against us, on American soil, for the first time in our History. In world History.

And these aren't really attacks. They're advertisements. We know Sadaam has more than anthrax letters in his arsenal. He has better anthrax with better delivery systems, smallpox, VX gas, and no one in our government can say for sure that he doesn't have nukes. He's letting us know that his arsenal is already here. We need time to stop what's brewing here, because it isn't pretty.

9/11 wasn't his best shot. He's got a knife to our throat. That's why we're being goaded into this war.

Sadaam Hussein is holding cards that we don't want him to play, so we try to crack as many of the sleeper terrorists as possible before striking Iraq.

That's why we're delaying....

Momentarily.