Ahhhhhh..... RUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN......
Posted on 10/22/2001 10:40:41 AM PDT by newsperson999
ok. Before you flame me...lets discuss this..
2 postal workers are dead(and at different locations) 2 more confirmed with inhalation anthrax...maybe 9 more cases..it takes 8,000 or more spores to get sick from anthrax..
Well they didn't open the mail there they just sorted it, yet still somehow all that anthrax must have goten into the air...
The scary thing is this. How many spores got onto mail that went ot the general public?!!!
This may be much bigger then we are lead to believe. Or it may not. Please put your 2 cents in.
None of the so called experts knows how anthrax can be transmitted in the postal system or if a lethal dose is possible with minimal contact to an exposed letter.
Did the letter I received from my Senator last Friday contain anthrax? I don't know. Is it coincidence that my lungs are inflamed today and I have a cough and no other symptoms? I don't know.
With the high mortality rate for pulmonary anthrax do I see a doctor now or wait? After all I don't want to appear to be an alarmist yet waiting an extra day could be too late.
Gosh, you're RIGHT!! I just went and licked every piece of mail I could find, twice for the ones that were delivered this past week, just to show that I'm not an irrational fool! Thanks for putting me in my place.
So just what is an acceptable anthrax ratio? Would 10 anthrax cases per 800 car accidents be acceptable to you? We all know that nobody here gets out alive, but, driving unlike anthrax is an acceptable risk and even if one succumbs while driving it is assumed that it was in fact an accident and nothing could be done to change it. Anthrax on the other hand is not an accident, and must be treated as one would treat any other direct attack.
I am quite amused at the folly of some here who foolishly believe in the heard mentality. Just because the number of cases are so low they think they have nothing to worry about, the idea seems to be that anthrax is something other people get. I believe we are being lied to and this is just the tip of the iceberg, there are no old fools. In the end we are all dead, it is what happens between now and then in a persons life that makes the difference.
I'm beginning to think that citizens of this country think they should be protected at all times, at all costs from anything or anyone that might threaten their safety -- the day that happens, you will be either be living in a padded cell, or paying so much in taxes that life will be a well-protected, police-regulated daily grind of barren poverty. I'd rather take my chances, not succumb to panic, be careful and not expect the government to wipe my nose.
So what are acceptable losses? This head in the sand thing is getting annoying. Everyone might consider the potential of contaminating millions of pieces of mail and what it would mean.
The postal workers were exposed before the Senate and other sites, yet they took no precautions to treat the symptoms. How many people could be exposed and not know it? Loads and loads. There is a trail of spores everywhere the envelopes travel. All the mail in the machines is contaminated most likely.
Ahhhhhh..... RUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN......
Smallpox?
Then it would be like living in a modified version of Stephen King's The Stand. Let's hope not, but the similarities would be to close for me.
Great book.
I do not know if anyone has noticed but a major re-definition spin job is being foisted upon the American public. Inhalation Anthrax is now being classified as "GARDEN VARIETY ANTHRAX." Before the Anthrax attacks took place (and shortly after the FL case came to light). The experts and talking heads ALL classified Inhalation Anthrax as "weapons grade Anthrax." Why? because it had to be refined, dried and milled in STATE labs by huge centrifuges costing millions and millions of dollars in order to create a biological weapon that could kill an enemy via his breathing it into his lungs. Remember, in the whole of the last century only 19 people died from Inhalation Anthrax! That is important given the fact that Inhalation Anthrax has been sent to numerous individuals. It seems the government has been down playing the Anthrax bio terrorist attacks and their coordinated relationship with the events of 911 as a means of crowd control in order to "not alarm the masses" and to avoid wide spread panic. But let's look at the facts:
1. The Anthrax in FL and at NBC was inhalation Anthrax, i.e.NOT “garden variety” Anthrax but the weaponized (the definition they were using up to several days ago) MANUFACTURED form, “not found in nature.”
2. The Anthrax Daschel received was also (according to ABC and FOX News) "not produced by armatures but very powerful... very REFINED and very FINE." Again, not your "garden variety" Anthrax. Again, huge centrifuges, costing millions upon millions of dollars must be used in order to refine it. That takes the resources of a State to produce the weaponized Anthrax that has been used. The primary suspect is Sadam and Iraq. Don't forget, Atta, the leader of the 911 attacks, met not once but twice with high ranking Iraqi officials before 911. He also went to a FL Pharmacy asking for something to treat his hands which were very red and itchy. Atta was also the one making serious inquiries into crop dusters in FL. The government says “there is no connection between those who instigated 911 and the current Anthrax attacks… that is ludicrous.
3. The Anthrax attacks, like those of 911 were well coordinated and the targets were all high visibility targets (government and news organizations) designed to maximize the terror and also provide the perpetrators with information on how successful their attacks were.
Now government officials are actively RE-DEFINING THE DEFINITION OF WEAPONS GRADE ANTHRAX. The SPIN is = "This isn't weapons grade because it can be treated by antibiotics." Funny, that was NEVER the criteria they used to define "weapons grade Anthrax prior to October 16, 01." Like the first attack on the WTC, these latest attacks made an impact but failed to gain the results they were after = the deaths of thousands, massive terror and the disruption of American commerce/life.
Remember, the terrorists used the results of the first attempt on the WTC to re-think the problem and try again, with devastating results. This whole thing may be an info gathering exercise to test for results and change their tactics. Small pox, or something else may be in the works.
There may be another HUGE reason why the "authorities" are treating this as merely a criminal act and are unwilling to label it for what it is: a coordinated terrorist attack/act of war, related to the individuals and events of 911 using State produced" weapons grade Anthrax." If the United States government admits that this is the case than the ramifications are obvious:
1. The government of the United States of America and it's citizens are being subjected to a concerted biological attack using weapons grade Anthrax.
2. America has long told the world (and warned Sadam in 1991) that ANY NATION that uses BIOLOGICAL, chemical or nuclear attacks will be responded to in kind.
3. If that is the case (and it is), America must fulfill it's responsibility to respond with nuclear or biological weapons in order to send a clear message and to protect it's citizens from future attack. Unfortunately, it seems we are not taking this war/biological attack upon the United States seriously because we are unwilling to do what is necessary to put it to an end.
The tragedy is this: it seems we are going to wait until they use small pox, plague, a dirty nuclear weapon or some other weapon of mass destruction before we act. It will take the loss of thousands, perhaps millions more U.S. citizens before we bite the bullet and do what needs to be done. The politicians will wring their hands, there will be more national days of mourning, rhetoric and finger pointing. But the truth is this: the only message our enemies understand is the message of massive, overwhelming, brute force. We used it on Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. It was difficult and painful, lots of people died BUT IT ENDED THE WAR and today these people who were once our mortal enemies are some of our closest allies.
My message to those in our government monitoring this post: Please STOP THE SPIN, tell us the truth and do what needs to be done, WHATEVER THE COST, to prosecute this war and bring it to a victorious conclusion.
Dr. S
The following was posted on 10/18/01 11:08 AM Pacific by zipper
The word "weaponized" is used solely as an adjective, to distinguish from the natural state of the bacterium, which is often found to infect grazing animals (nostrils near the ground when they feed, where the spores accumulate). Anthrax in nature is not "weaponized" in the sense it is not milled to a particular grain size to facilitate aerisolization and not genetically altered in a lab to resist antibiotics or vaccines, among other features.
from the infectious disease newsgroup PRO-MED 10/17/01:
-- Anthrax as a weapon:
Creating a weapon from anthrax requires that a large number of spores be grown in the lab, purified, and then combined with a fine powdery substance that keeps the spores from clumping. The powder also provides a vehicle that helps keep the spores airborne as long as possible after they are released.
To be effective as a weapon, the anthrax spores must remain airborne in sufficient concentration to allow victims to inhale large numbers. At least 8000 spores, and perhaps many more than that, must be inhaled deep into the lungs to cause disease. Studies have shown that goat mill workers routinely exposed to more than 500 inhaled spores over an 8-hour period did not develop disease.
Experts say that the individual anthrax spore is about one micron by one micron in size. A human hair is 25 to 50 microns in diameter. Particles that are 5 microns or bigger are usually trapped in the upper portions of the respiratory tract. For this reason, to be an effective weapon, anthrax spores are refined so that they are delivered to the respiratory tract in particles small than 5 microns.
The Following was posted on 10/18/01 12:20 PM Pacific by True Capitalist
FYI: In Richard Preston's article in THE NEW YORKER of March 9, 1998 titled BIOWEAPONEERS, he discusses the "weapons-grade anthrax" produced by Ken Alibek (deputy chief of the Sovie's Biopreparat) who was interviewed extensively in the article. Interstingly, the article never mentions that this "weapons-grade anthrax" was genetically modified. Rather it focuses on the method it is processed to get it to float in the air.
They can spin for the sheeple all they want but in light of all the above the only logical conclusion that can be reached is this: We are being subjected to a bio terrorist attack using weaponized or weapons grade Anthrax. This Anthrax was produced by a State.
Dr. S
Then again.....If there are any here, its rather telling, isn't it, that they don't seem interested in setting the record straight?
Terrorists -- probably, although not necessarilly, associated with the Al Qaida network -- have been able to obtain a relatively SMALL quantity of Anthrax powder. It is not hard to smuggle in a small quantity, the large quantity needed for a massive terrorist attack designed to kill millions would be another matter.
Given that they only had a relatively small quantity to work with, their strategy was to mail it to a few targets in the government and media. While they would have realized that relatively few fatalities would result from such a tactic, they could be reasonably assured that the attack would achieve substantial and sustained media attention (which it did).
They could also have mailed larger numbers of letters containing inert substances to other random targets. This would have a multiplier effect, hyping media attention, increasing panic levels among some segments of the population, and lulling other segments of the population into dangerous complacency. It is likely that other people, whether sympathetic to the terrorist's cause or not, would jump in with their own copy-cat mailings. From the terrorist's point of view, whether these individuals were allied with them or not is irrelevant, it would still serve their purposes.
Such an approach would be a low-cost, low-detection-risk strategy to keep up the pressure at a low but annoying intensity during the interlude between the 9/11 attacks and the next strike.
I could be wrong, but I have yet to see any evidence that would refute such a hypothesis.
Ya know, rereading my original post I didn't think I was the least bit panicky. Prudence is a virtue--ignorance is not. As for something hitting close to home, were you more shocked by terrorists killing innocent American civilians in Manhattan or blowing up Israeli teenagers in a pizza joint in Tel Aviv?
And I'll give you a personal example to boot. When I was in college, there was a spate of rapes and assaults on campus, always targeting a lone female walking back to the dorms from the library after dark. Girls walking home alone after dark had their hearts in their throats and listened intently for sounds in the bushes. I don't know of anyone in the throes of panic who refused to do assignments or dropped out of school in response. It didn't take too many of these assaults before we started doing our library study in broad daylight or walking in groups. A couple of fraternities even started a call-in service to escort girls across campus back to their dorms. As people became aware of the danger, they started avoiding the dangerous situations. Was that a panicky reaction? Was that an irrational response? No, just common sense, my friend. Do you understand the difference between hysteria and vigilance? And I don't know of any girl who defiantly declared, "I'm not afraid of you, Rapist! I'm going to walk by myself in the dark back and forth across a deserted campus just to show you I'm not panicking!"
Being aware of your surroundings, being suspicious of those who act suspiciously, minimizing your chances of contact with people and places demonstrated to be hazardous--more common sense. Again, as for "hitting close to home," do you not think that I am more concerned that my family's mail runs through this vicinity where there is a demonstrably lethal load of anthrax floating about than you, whose mail is probably far, far away and your postal facilities haven't been closed down because of contamination? We get bills and junk mail and birthday cards to the kids and letters from home, all of which might have been rollin' right along those same conveyor belts. If all we got was email, that aspect of possible contamination wouldn't concern me one whit. So I don't understand why YOU don't understand a rational and legitimate concern. I'm not a bit panicked, and I'm not staying up at night chewing my fingernails. That said, I really don't believe any of the mail we've gotten is contaminated. But it could have been, and that's my point.
Now, go off and hunt that wascly wabbit and leave me alone.
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