Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
Becky
As I understand the United Church of God, no. I'm not sure what the doctrine of the Worldwide Church of God was.
Allend:Rom 2:13. For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. (NASB)
That is a wonderful verse. Have you done the whole Law? If not then you are just a hearer.
"[14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? [15] We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, [16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." - Ga 2:14-16
It seems that we have a bit of a quandary here. Or do we?
-ksen
If you had hard scripture to quote it would give us cause to consider it, but I believe what I wrote below clears it up, let me know what you think.
This is a great place to start, because it was my biggest problem for years, and I would argue that the laws that were done away with were the ordinances of the law, and not the 10 Commandments.
And then I would reason how strange it was that the only commandment that the world had done away with literally was the Sabbath.
It all narrowed down to trying to distinguish between the ordinances and the Commandments, and then I realized that the Ten Commandments were the only laws written in stone, then I was shown 2 Cor 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Paul here cleared the whole thing up for me by saying that the Law that had been written in stone was now in the fleshly tables of our heart.
What law could this be other then the ten Commandments?
Elisabeth calls Mary "The Mother of My Lord." And since "Lord" is basically a Jewish euphemism used to avoid saying the "four letter word" name of God, this is equivalent to "Mother of God"
SD
I realize the problems with manuscripts, translations, etc, etc, etc. But this book contains the TRUTH OF GOD, and we will all be judged by our accordance with His Truth and not by our accordance with a certain church which has embellished its truth to such an extent that the simplicity of faith and the gospel is nearly, if not entirely, lost. You may call it bibliolatry if you like. I'm a truth-seeker, and Christ affirmed that His Father's word is truth, and this written word is the closest thing I have to His Father's word.
I do become offended by logic which sets itself up against the truth which God has revealed. Why are YOU offended by truth as revealed in scripture? Why do you take man's reasoning over the word of God?
Simply because bibically I don't think true salvation happens without baptism. Since I haven't committed myself to baptism yet, I don't think I've truly gained salvation...but I'm 99% there. But I really didn't want to go on with a discussion of baptism until I figured out the 10 commandments and how they relate to the 7th day sabbath... :-)
Uh oh. You haved catholic leanings.
OK look at Gal. 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
James 2:10 Whosoever keepth the whole law but offend in one point is guilty of it all.
The law, 10 commandments, was given to show us we CAN'T keep it not even one. So what do we do. The law was given to show us we need Christ. Yes we are to strive, do our best, to keep them, but we can't, But John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotton son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The 10 commandments are God's standards, and those standards are unreachable to man, so there had to be another way. Jesus Christ.
Becky
Make sure you get the context. Next verses: "For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature those things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a law unto themselves: which show the works of the law written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another".
Paul goes on in Chapters 4 through 6 of Romans to explain how that Gentiles are not and never have been subject to the Law, and that the Jew and also the Gentile are freed from having to keep the Law by the completed work of Christ. You need to understand that to be in Christ is to be dead to sin, dead to the Law, dead to the penalties of the Law and of sin. He also goes on to point out that being freed from those things does not mean that we are free to sin, but that we are freed from the inability to stop sinning. You must take this section of scripture in context as a whole, for Paul gives a very concise and complete defense of this. He is talking to believers who have been exposed to Jewish teachings, as evidenced by his spending time detailing Jewish Law.
Yes. I know that many Christians think that this is sufficient, but I don't.
There is a wonderful book called "The Gospel of Jesus" by someone whose last name is MacArthur (I think).
Although I'm not sure if he believes that baptism has to be done, the views in the bible articulated by him very closely parallel my own view.
What difference is their "mariology" supposed to make to me? They were wrong in glorifying her, just as you are wrong. This wasn't their only error.
And what ARE the fruits of Christ's sacrifice which will be applied to you in this fictional world you'll be living in?
Grace. Sanctifying grace. A free gift of God which transforms my soul.
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On what or whose word do you base this promise of the transforming grace God applies to you in purgatory? Can you show me where this promise is given?
Then I see nothing wrong with you following your conviction, God knows your heart, and if things aren't legalistically in the proper order I'm sure God may get a chuckle out of the babes in Christ as they crawl and find their feet and begin to walk, as long as you are true to your self.
Exactly! I did not learn this until lunch today while reading the bible. I somehow thought that ALL the laws set forth in Exodus were written in stone...then I read this today:
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD fortyd days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
So here we see that the only things written on the "stone" tablets were the 10 commandments.
Paul here cleared the whole thing up for me by saying that the Law that had been written in stone was now in the fleshly tables of our heart.
Yes! I can't find that verse though and it's driving me nuts. But I know it's there. So if the law (the 10 commandments) are written in our heart instead of stone, that means that we should *know* when we violate them.
It could be no other law.
So then since Paul was addressing Christians, both Jew and Gentile, than the 10 Commandments, which are written into the hearts of all believers need to be followed. Which is why I strongly lean toward the Saturday Sabbath. To do otherwise would violate Gods law, written in my heart.
What violation ? You demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of His Word.
Col. 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision
of your sinful nature, [Or your flesh] God made you [Some
manuscripts: us] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Col. 2:14 having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that
was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away,
nailing it to the cross.
Col. 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a
public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
[Or them in him]
Col. 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or
drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon
celebration or a Sabbath day.
XeniaSt
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