The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[Havoc]

I'm sure you are also against such simplistic formulations as "We are saved by faith alone," as the "blasphemous inference" from that statement is that we need only profess a belief and need not actually make any changes in our lives. Just believe.

You're sure of your beliefs, that doesn't make either right. Saying we are saved by faith alone has nothing to do with repentance. Your example is absurd at best - reaching. And I have and do to this day state that we are indeed saved by faith alone. After that, repentance is necessary. Obedience is necessary. And following the Will of the Lord our God is necessary. Eternal life hinges upon these things. One can do the latter and, not being saved, go to hell. One can be saved and forsake the latter and go to hell. The only people going to heaven are those that are saved, repent, follow the Lord and Obey Him. One cannot make the leap you make with your comparison on inferrance - it isn't there. With regard to idolatry and Mary, there is a predelection toward lifting her higher than the Lord based on philosophy, not scripture. And because of that, your "Mary gave birth to God" argument is profane to say the least.

[SoothingDave]

Re 3257

Thus, Jesus Christ declares (Matthew 12:32): "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."

This is in no way supportive of purgatory....Not even remotely. On this one, Augustine's used faulty logic...like a lot of logic concerning extra-biblical religious concepts.

I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention. Was there an argument in their somewhere, or did you just wave your hands and say "nothing here"?

Please speak to the meaning of the sin not being forgiven in this world or in the world to come. Was our Lord just being pointlessly redundant or is there some significance here?

SD

[vmatt]

This made me believe that you don't believe in a church. If i'm wrong please clarify.

The early church was a church which fulfilled its purpose of gathering many believers for the teaching necessary for perfecting of the saints of that time. This church beyond argument possessed the power and authority of God which, arguably, has gone away.

There are many claims which harken back to that church for their authority but all have failed miserably to this very day. In my many experiences in our churches today I have found them so lacking as to disassociate myself from them all. This is a personal decision and is certainly not something I would claim everyone should do. There are ample warnings as to false prophets to make one cautious and I have met more than one.

I believe God is going to restore the authority of the early church once again in this age and that it will be in a way parallel to the Jews rejection of Christ. The religious will reject once again the movement of God in our age but those who have ears to hear will see God working. To him that hath, more will be given. To him that hath not, even that which he seemeth to have will be taken away.

[SoothingDave]

I'm sure you are also against such simplistic formulations as "We are saved by faith alone," as the "blasphemous inference" from that statement is that we need only profess a belief and need not actually make any changes in our lives. Just believe.

You're sure of your beliefs, that doesn't make either right. Saying we are saved by faith alone has nothing to do with repentance. Your example is absurd at best - reaching. And I have and do to this day state that we are indeed saved by faith alone. After that, repentance is necessary. Obedience is necessary. And following the Will of the Lord our God is necessary. Eternal life hinges upon these things.

I'm sorry but I can't stand here and let this doctrine of demons be preached. We can not say we are saved by faith alone, for that would mean that nothing else is necessary. No following God's rules, no obedience, no striving to do good.

Stop giving creedance to this lie from the devil that we are saved by faith alone.

SD

[malakhi]

Even tho I know it would be tempting to claim a team that's won 50% of the Superbowls in the past 4 years.

The Green Bay Packers NFL Championships:

1929
1930
1931
1936
1938
1939
1944
1960
1961
1962
1965
1966 (Super Bowl I)
1967 (Super Bowl II)
1996 (Super Bowl XXXI)

That's fourteen championships, gentlemen. Here's how the other teams rank:

Chicago Bears - 9 championships
New York Giants - 6 championships
Dallas Cowboys - 5 championships
Washington Redskins - 5 championships
San Francisco 49ers - 5 championships
Detroit Lions - 4 championships
Pittsburgh Steelers - 4 championships
Cleveland Browns - 4 championships

'Nuf said.

[SoothingDave]

Re 3275

I repeat; there are millions of Catholics in this world who do not know Jesus. They know only Mary, Saints (various and sundry) and Statues.

Everybody don't foget to miss the next showing of Amazing Reggie. Amazing Reggie knows all, sees all. Watch Amazing Reggie read the minds of millions of people. Watch Amazing Reggie discern the faith of untold numbers.

SD

[JHavard]

Oh, I just realized, that pergatory would be better defined as forced salvation, what we can't accomplish with God's Spirit and the blood of Christ, God then forces us to final submission with out giving us our free moral agency to decide whether or not we want to be with God enough to submit to it.

That statement is just plain dumb. Why don't you check the CCC before you post this stuff?

The question was to SD, but it should be a snap for you to answer this "Dumb" statement also, so in my dumbness I will wait to be enlightened.

[SoothingDave]

It only counts when they started the Super Bowl. Cause that way Cleveland has never won anything. I knew you'd understand.

SD

[tiki]

until you bring Mary into it!

Wellllllllllll, you think that you can get me to stop believing that the Saints are with God and they can pray for us and I can't stop believing that. I'll ask Mary to pray for you and I'll stop trying to explain the Bible and Tradition to you.

You just continue to worship God in the little confines of your own mind in your closet and in your exclusivity and I'll worship Him in the context of His all encompassing, timeless and glorious infinity and in His whole Creation which includes all the Saints, past, present and future.

[Pelayo]

There are ample warnings as to false prophets to make one cautious and I have met more than one.

I believe God is going to restore the authority of the early church once again in this age and that it will be in a way parallel to the Jews rejection of Christ. The religious will reject once again the movement of God in our age but those who have ears to hear will see God working. To him that hath, more will be given. To him that hath not, even that which he seemeth to have will be taken away.

LOL! This has got to be some kinda trick.

[eastsider]

Those were two exciting games. I credit not only the D'backs pitching but their batting.

I have little to say about the Yankees errors in Game 1, other than to say that I'm not surprised Brosius made one of them. He also bobbled the ball in a play in Game 2, which while the officials did not score it as an error against him, I do. I've seen Brosius make somes great plays, but he's inconsistent.

Moose's lack of World Series' inexperience showed. I felt the same about Shane Spencer.

I'm impressed with the D'backs. They're formidable opponents. It's too bad they'll end up losing in their home park. Two starting pitchers, not matter how awesome, cannot carry a team through a seven-game series without relief. It will be their undoing.

[SoothingDave]

Re 3305

Is the prayer the Hail Mary ever said in the name of Jesus, or for that matter any Catholic prayer?

Well, Becky, the source and summit of Catholic life, the Mass, particularly the Eucharistic canon, is entirely about Jesus and His Sacrifice.

Every prayer in the Mass is directed to the Father. They are closed with the short version "through Christ Our Lord" or with the extended dance mix version "We ask this through your Son, Jesus Christ Our Lord, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, One God forever and ever"

The climax point of the Eucharistic prayer comes at the end when the consecrated elements are held high and the priest invites our "Amen!" to the extended prayer, in doxology form:

Through Him
With Him
In Him
In the unity of the Holy Spirit
All Glory and Honor is Yours, Almighty Father
Forever and ever.

Does that answer your question?

SD

[Titanites]

Thanks for posting Green Bay's championships. The parish in my little town when I was a kid was considered a missionary parish, and was run by the Norbertines, who come from Green Bay. Many of the priests knew a lot of the Packers and we actually had some come out to Montana and visit. One time Bob Skoronski gave a talk at our booster club, which was packed with kids and adults (maybe 300!). Anyhow, Bob took off his championship ring and just tossed it out into the crowd from the podium so people could try it on. I could fit three fingers into it, and what a thrill it was.

[SoothingDave]

Re 3379

Nobdysfool wrote: Your idea of respect to Jesus' Mother is a cultural construct, not a scriptural one.

True, and IMO, its roots go way, way, way, way back to Egyptian mythology.

LOL. Oh my. Are you serious? And here I thought they went back to the Bible. You need to get a breath of fresh air.

SD

[SoothingDave]

that last one was for hopefulpilgrim

[JHavard]

And don't be ridiculous, this doesn't violate our free will. Those in Purgatory will be there because of the choices they have made. In life.

You are the one being rediculous, it most certainly does violate our free will ability to choose.

Ask someone who has no intrest in any religion, if God gives man total free will to choose his way of life, and then if he dosn't do so, and when he dies he has sin and God then burns it out of him against his will, if that wouldn't be called "forced salvation" to make him acceptable to God?

[eastsider]

They might as well claim that the virgin birth and Jesus' two natures derive from the cult of Greek heroes. Joseph Campbell is chortling in his grave even as we speak.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I only count Superbowls as well. That other stuff would be like quoting St. Jerome or something. Wasn't real football.

[tiki]

How do you know those people are even in heaven, as apposed to the alternative.

How do you know there's a God. I nor the Catholic Church has judged them but we do read the Bible and there are ways to know. It's all there in Scripture, one passage I already quoted and guess what this is the end of my argument.

If I thought that any of you guys were interested in the Truth of Catholicism, I'd spend day and night on this thread trying to teach you but you want to believe what you want to believe and your minds are not open at all.

I know, for a fact, that you just skim through the posts and get one little contention to jump on, you don't even really try to understand what is written if it isn't what you want to believe. I, on the other hand have been through all your Protestant stuff all my life. I've been saved, I've been throught the feel-goodism of Protestantism ,the "just me and Jesus" viewpoint, It's not that simple and it left much to be desired and sought after.

I refuse to abandon my years of prayer and study because you can't understand them but I do. The Holy Spirit has protected the Catholic Church from error for 2000 yrs now and the gates of hell are not about to prevail now.

Yes, you attack it but you will never be able to erase the Truths of Jesus' Church. You can have a pale imitation of Christianity but until you understand and embrace all of God's teaching within the context of the Universal Church, you will always be fighting against Truth.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

If I thought that any of you guys were interested in the Truth of Catholicism, I'd spend day and night on this thread trying to teach you but you want to believe what you want to believe and your minds are not open at all. I know, for a fact, that you just skim through the posts and get one little contention to jump on, you don't even really try to understand what is written if it isn't what you want to believe. I, on the other hand have been through all your Protestant stuff all my life. I've been saved, I've been throught the feel-goodism of Protestantism ,the "just me and Jesus" viewpoint, It's not that simple and it left much to be desired and sought after.

Thank you Saint Tiki. Where can I order your book on humility and how you achieved it?