Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Back in the day there was the "universal" Church and there were a bunch of heretics running around in contrast. the name stuck.
Where did the use of "One Holy and Apostolic" originate?
They are in the Nicene Creed, though I don't know if they originate with that council. The four "marks" by which you can tell the true Church are these. The Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. A Church which does not have all 4 of these could not possibly be the true Church.
SD
First: You must know I don't believe there is such a place as Purgatory.
I realize that.
Second: We all know the abuse of Indulgences were the cause of great scandal in the Church.
The sale of them was an abuse. Whether they exist at all was a Reformation doubt.
Third: My skeptical nature causes me to believe they (and Purgatory) were "invented" for the sole purpose of raising money.
OK. But divorce them from money raising and then what?
Fourth: I believe the whole thing is abused.
Is this a different point than #2?
Fifth: I believe innocent youth are being "set up" to accept the practice as a normal thing.
Catholic kids are being taught their faith. If you don't like it then don't have your kids be taught the Catholic faith.
Good grief man, I could say the same thing about the poor Protestant youth being "set up" to believe Protestant lies, but I don't.
SD
Still beating that dead horse? (Note: that's a metaphor.) If the Catholic Church never catechised in the vernacular you might have a point. Do you think small children went to CCD and the priest just talked in Latin the whole time, oblivious to the children not speaking Latin?
It would be hilarious if you weren't serious.
SD
Maybe you're confused. I was talking about why people don't listen to you. Or are you implying that what you say is the Word of God?
You must be new here. Havoc speaks the Word of God.
SD
nihilist n. 1.a) the denial of the existence of any basis for knowledge or truth.
The bible is the word of God.
b) the general rejection of customary beliefs in morality, religion, etc.
The key word is "customary" making me one third nihilist so far.
2. the belief that there is no meaning or purpose in existence.
This is not true. The true meaning is hidden from us and must be revealed by the word of God. Not everyone is going to get it. I reject any and all attempts at placing me in a box. I claim absolute freedom from any religious organization or creed.
Mr(?) Wisdom, that sounds like a good point, though I wouldn't want some here to catch you using the term "allegory"! :-)
AS
(Steven's gonna kick himself for missing this one.)
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Dear Mr Buckley: In a recent column you state: "The statistics here are very firm. If you don't smoke until the age 21, the chances are 90 percent that you will not smoke ever." Sorry, firm statistics or not, it cannot be. If you don't smoke until age 21, the chances are 100 percent that you will smoke. "Not X until Y" entails "X at or after Y." The logic of the word until is richer than that of before, which is, we infer, what you meant. So if one says, "She did not smoke before age 21," one can sensibly add "and she did not smoke after that age either." But replacement of before with until yields a contradiction when the addition is present.
Paul M Postal/Eve Tauss
Scarsdale, NY
Dear Mr Postal/Ms Tauss: Nice going, and you are absolutely right.
Cordially,
WFB
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I'm going to have to write a letter to WFB and get him to clarify that modern English usage rules do not apply to translated historical texts.
SD
The other angels were not the same as Satan, scripture makes it clear that he had been elevated in power and was even called the son of the morning star, Job 1: 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
No where are angels referred to as sons of God, and no common angel would have been able to influence a third of the remaining angels to follow him, and then become the ruler of earth.
The two thirds of the angels who did not follow Satan, no doubt also had free will to make their choice, and saw through what his final goals were, to compete with God for power, but they chose to remained faithful.
By the remaining 2/3rds. observing Satan and those who followed him for possibly eons of time, and seeing the end results of Satan’s philosophy at work, they in essence were able to make the same decision as we do when we decide to follow Satan no longer and turn our lives over to Christ, the main difference being they didn’t have an earthly body to contend with as we do, se we don't simply have to overcome the spiritual part of ourselves, but the physical also.
You are right about indulgences and praying for the dead in purgatory---it IS baggage, *empty* baggage. There is no such thing as a state of existence after death called "purgatory." When we lay aside this fleshly body in death, we go directly to heaven---the apostle Paul refers to this as "going Home." 2 Cor. 5:
We know that if our earthly dwelling [our bodies] were taken down, like a tent, we have a permanent house in Heaven, made, not by man, but by God. In this present frame we sigh with deep longing for the Heavenly House, for we do not want to face utter nakedness when death destroys our present dwelling--these bodies of ours. As long as we are clothed in the temporary dwelling we have a painful longing, not because we want just to get rid of these "clothes," but because we want to know the full cover of the permanent house that will be ours. We want our transitory life to be absorbed into the life that is eternal. Now the power that has planned this experience for us is God, and He has given us His Spirit as a guarantee of its truth. This makes us confident, whatever happens. We realize that being "at home"in the body means that to some extent we are "away" from the Lord, for we have to live by trusting Him without seeing Him. We are so sure of this that we would really rather be "away" from the body and be "at home" with the Lord. It is our aim, therefore, to please Him, whether we are "at home" or "away."
"Home" or "away"---no in between.
Are you going to heaven the way you are now, or shall you be changed?
SD
I mentioned this [Acts 13:1-3] to call attention to the fact that Paul and Barnabus were not ordained by apostles, but bu the Church and it's people...There goes your idea that only the apostles could ordain ministers, and claim apostolic succession.
JHavard, did they ever actually deal with the passage itself that you referred them to, or did they ignore it and argue with you? Just curious, because I've noticed that they do this a lot.
We recognize that people can have an emotional episode and feel that they are "saved" but that this can wear off. Or 20 years later a "Saved" person can have doubt or fall into sin. Our lives are not changed by a one-time decision, but rather by a lifetime of decisions to help be Jesus to the world.
True, this does happen...the "warm fuzzies" fade, the "spiritual adrenaline" wears off...and we learn to walk faithfully, by the strength He supplies, getting our nourishment from the word and the Spirit, and not rely on "feelings." He transforms us into His image "from glory to glory. This is the work of the Spirit, but we cooperate by our obedience....yet our resolve and enablement for obedience *also* comes from Him. It all goes back to HIM, which is why all glory is due Him.
Me too, Johnny. I choose Christ to be my righteousness....1 Cor. 1:30 "But by His doing, you are in Christ Jesus, Who became righteousness to us...that just as it is written: 'Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.'"
I'm sure I have. What I don't do is make it seem sensational that they tell their "lies" to their children.
SD
"The statistics here are very firm. If you don't smoke until the age 21, the chances are 90 percent that you will not smoke ever."
Sorry, firm statistics or not, it cannot be. If you don't smoke until age 21, the chances are 100 percent that you will smoke.
"Not X until Y" entails "X at or after Y." The logic of the word until is richer than that of before, which is, we infer, what you meant. So if one says,
"She did not smoke before age 21," one can sensibly add "and she did not smoke after that age either."
But replacement of before with until yields a contradiction when the addition is present.
Paul M Postal/Eve Tauss
Mt 1: 25. And knew her not till before she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
I see no problem taking care of this little detail.
But don't forget,
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