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The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^
| 3/24/01
| AP
Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Thread 162
TNS Archives
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: christianlist; michaeldobbs
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To: ksen
I don't mean to give offense.You didn't offend. I just thought the question was weighted. Sok.
To: the808bass
you know, I've always wondered about Judas. The Bible never explicitly says whether or not he believed Christ was the Son of God. We don't hear much from him until the betrayal. We also know the Holy Spirit didn't come till after Christ's ascension, so he would not be filled with the Holy Spirit. So there are a few gray areas with Judas because the Word never really expounds on his "salvation" or state of grace.
JM
To: SoothingDave
2671
will read and respond, thanx
To: the808bass
No I don't believe Judas was ever a believer. The bible tells us he was an unrepentent thief. He griped about the oil on Jesus. He did not seem to EVER have Christ in his heart. He talked the talk but did not walk the walk. We can know by their fruits thing:)
Maybe that is the answer to SD question, "how do you know when you have been lead by the HS to salvation?" If you can imagine you or anyone being able to "fall" then I don't see how you could have experienced true salvation. Not because we keep ourselves saved, but Jesus does. I am not going to keep my salvation, Jesus is going to keep me saved because I believe He died for me and he won"t ever let me go. I accepted the free gift.
Becky
To: JHavard
800, since God knows whether we will make it or not, would he call someone who he already knows will fail, thereby condemning him to eternal Hell?You and I probably start from different places. I think God calls everyone. Thus, the call for the one who becomes apostate is no different than the call everyone else gets.
To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I am not going to keep my salvation, Jesus is going to keep me saved because I believe He died for me and he won"t ever let me go. I agree with that statement. Now, hypothetically, is it possible that a person could change their mind that Jesus died for them or that Jesus loves them? And if that's possible...
To: JohnnyM
the Word never really expounds on his "salvation" or state of grace. Didn't you say somewhere you can't lose your salvation? If that's the case then you have to believe the Judas was never saved. He gave it lip service only.
Becky
To: the808bass
ok lets refine his statement. Maybe God knew that Judas would reject Him, never getting saved in the first place, and used him to betray Christ. This is all speculation of course, but within the realm of reason, and not without precedent.
JM
To: the808bass
No I do not believe that is possible for someone who TRULY believed.
Becky
To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I'm in agreement with you, but there are those that argue that since he was a disciple, he must have been saved, and that really isn't supported or denied directly by Scripture. I believe Judas was unsaved and was used by God to betray Jesus.
JM
To: the808bass
That's a heck of a "side question." Jesus called Judas and he responded so he couldn't have been completely empty. Unless he followed Jesus cause he thought it would get him chicks and money. Hmmm. I'll have to think about this again.
God definitely knew that His Son would be betrayed. Did he prepare Judas to be "hard hearted"? Didn't God "need" (so to speak) to have a Judas? Was Judas just playing his role? Can we hope that Judas repented of his role?
There are more questions than answers and it brings into play the whole predestination/free will thing.
The only thing I do know is this: a few years from now St Louis will join San Francisco and Dallas in the utterly ruined and spent (literally) franchises having to suck wind through a series of really bad years. Paying money to folks who don't even play anymore.
The Steelers, meanwhile, will be somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6 every year. And when they get the right confluence of events they might just surprise ya.
SD
To: SoothingDave
SD, is a steelers fan!
You're not so bad after all :)
JM
To: JohnnyM
he must have been saved, and that really isn't supported or denied directly by Scripture. Not denied directly by Scripture!!! HE BETRAYED JESUS CHRIST. What more do you need.
Becky
To: JohnnyM
I'm in agreement with you, but there are those that argue that since he was a disciple, he must have been saved, and that really isn't supported or denied directly by Scripture. I believe Judas was unsaved and was used by God to betray Jesus.
Other then Mary, can anyone of you think of another person other then Judas, that was prophesied in the OT, who would play apart in Christianity? Besides Christ of course.
To: SoothingDave
The Steelers, meanwhile, will be somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6 every year.As a Mizzou grad I can hold no feelings of kindness towards Buffaloes or former Buffaloes, sorry Steven. I was on the goal line at the famous 5th-down game. We have seen the enemy, and their leader was McCartney (but is now Roy Williams).
To: SoothingDave
Can we hope that Judas repented of his role? No he did not repent! HE COMMITTED SUICIDE.
Becky
To: the808bass
Now, hypothetically, is it possible that a person could change their mind that Jesus died for them or that Jesus loves them? And if that's possible... Say a really horrible thing happened, death of a baby, something like that. It can cause people to lose their faith, turn bitter.
SD
To: JohnnyM
he must have been saved, and that really isn't supported or denied directly by Scripture.
I wonder how the catholics feel about the fact that Judas took the wine and the bread that had been converted to Christ own body and blood, and still it had no magic effects on him. Oh, I forgot, they didn't know how it worked until many years later. ((((wink,wink))))
Sorry, things were going to smooth here.Lol (^g^)
To: JohnnyM
SD, is a steelers fan! Aren't all good and decent people everywhere? (Oops, I mean, what else would a Western Pennsylvania boy (or girl) be?)
It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
SD
To: JHavard
I wonder how the catholics feel about the fact that Judas took the wine and the bread that had been converted to Christ own body and blood, and still it had no magic effects on him. Oh, I forgot, they didn't know how it worked until many years later. ((((wink,wink)))) He proved that you can eat and drink a curse upon yourself.
SD
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