Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
UMMM, Catholics, does God routinely kill innocent people?
Only those who ASK TOO MANY QUESTIONS!
LOL
I think allend might want to rephrase that. God allows innocent people to die all the time. Not interfering with the wonders of "free will" in action and all that. But saying that God "kills" them is not right.
SD
Very well said, Dave. Thanks for the input.
And it it GOD who kills us?
C'mon, allend, this doesn't square with Catholic theology. According to your own church, death came into the world as a result of the Fall. It is a result of man's damaged nature. This happened due to the free will choices of Adam and Eve. Man dies because of what MAN did. To blame God for it seems rather odd, to say the least.
Now THIS makes sense.
As far as innocent people...none are innocent in God's eyes unless they have accepted Jesus' gift of salvation. And then, yes their mortal bodies will die, but God didn't KILL them, they died.
It is appointed to all men to die once, then the judgement. Heb. 9:27
Becky
SD, Once a week is not a grevious burden.
How's about 52 times a year, and 3,120 times in a 60-year period. This is works, that do nothing for a man's salvation, other then making him think he is paying his way, which then does away with the free gift of salvation.
Secondly, in this rapidly secularizing culture the removal of a weekly reminder to folks that Jesus died for us in a way that had a real impact on peoples' lives is hadly showing them "mercy." If anything it leads to a weakening of the faith and contributes to the coming of the "post-Christian" era.
I guess when it comes to the Spiritual part of salvation, we just can't get through to you.
How many people do you think who kept meatless Friday, came to know God from this mini sacrifice? It simply became a ritual that they kept every Friday with no consideration of what it represented. That is why repetition is condemned in the word, because it becomes vain when man no longer puts his heart into it and simply does it because it's Friday again.
Man cannot make laws that bring others to God, and God himself knew that, and that is why Christ had to come. Man does not become good by doing good things unless he is doing it from his inner person, and he may even appear to be a good person, but as Christ said they are become as whitened sepulchers.
Mt23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.</b?
It is the Holy Spirit in us, that helps us do things for the right reason, and never because it pleases a man or a church, but God.
As I have tried to make the point of comparison before, It’s like the man who drives slowly and carefully through a school zone to make sure he doesn’t hit a child, compared to the person who watches his speedometer in case he’s being tracked by radar, and never looks out for children.
I might add, if you drive through the same school zone every morning, and you never see a child, how hard is it to not become complacent and simply watch the speedometer or the crossing guard at the inter section, it is hard to be totally aware of life at every waking moment, and repetition numbs the senses even more.
There are a few different ways to approach this.
First, sacrifice is the normative means of atoning for sins. In the absence of this primary method, other means can be used. Let me offer an analogy. After a person becomes a Christian, it is normal that the person will be baptized. However, let's say the person is walking to church for his baptism, and it hit by a truck and killed. Is he saved? Yes, because while baptism is normative, it is not absolutely necessary.
Second is a variation of the first. It recognizes that sacrifice is normative, but considers our prayers asking for forgiveness to be a 'substitute' for the sacrifice--a "sacrifice of the lips".
Remember that even under the sacrificial system, a person had to repent and ask forgiveness. A sacrifice without repentence was worthless. The sacrifice is a symbolic act of offering something of value to God as a sign of our contrition or gratitude.
It helped me to know God a little better. When you make a sacrifice for God, it centers your thoughts on God. Try it sometime. That's why I and many other Catholics still abide by meatless Friday's even though it is not required.
Do you read the Bible daily? Pray daily? Do you always have your heart fully into it? Anything we do routinely runs the risk of becoming routine. The solution is not to stop reading the Bible or praying, but rather to do it properly, understanding your purpose. With your heart, not by rote. Sort of an ongoing, personal 'revival'.
Then how about the men at your church (hypothetically) who have met every Wed morning at 6am to pray and read scripture? What about your (hypothetical) daily bible study or quite time with the Lord? What about Baptist churches that meet every Wed in addition to Sunday services? Does the second sentence apply to those "ritual" observances as well? Or is it only if the Catholics decide to do something as a group that it becomes a "work"?
Shall I start ending with "no offense intended" or will a ":-)" do until we figure out when the other is mad?
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