My Complete Whackjob Nutbag theory on white powders and anthrax

I am not going to say it can not happen, but I absolutley refuse to go into panic. If we let them scare us then they have won

That's exactly the point of this thread -- know your enemy (or at least try to outhink them). If panic is the goal, then don't let them have that victory.

82 posted on 10/12/2001 1:25:11 PM PDT by browardchad

Preparation is not panic. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

83 posted on 10/12/2001 1:26:31 PM PDT by TheOtherOne

Exactly! I think this is being done as a distraction from their next step and the dragnet that's out. Let's hope that "America's Most Wanted" tonight makes some progress.

84 posted on 10/12/2001 1:27:31 PM PDT by vetswife

To: Stefan Stackhouse; francisandbeans

In any event, keep in mind that in the past the terrorist's biggest hits have been on the order of 10-100 dead at a clip. Why would they necessarily care if their delivery system was crude or easily treated. They are going to get SOME people. They are going to score SOME successes. Not everyone who opens mail keeps abreast of the news. So why is it impossible to imagine (like the notion of flying airliners into buildings) that they have developed a method to deliver anthrax through the mail? Because we haven't figured out how to do it? Well, there's no reason for us to figure that out. There is a reason for them to figure it out.

85 posted on 10/12/2001 1:27:34 PM PDT by Loopy

The attack on the media outlets may not be to prevent cover-up but may have been done so that the story will have maximum coverage, with the hopes of the terrorists that panic in the press will lead to general public hysteria.

I can't believe the people behind this don't realize that one possible outcome of extreme general public hysteria might be turning the ground from Libya to Pakistan into one smooth sheet of glass

Or maybe that's what they really want?

86 posted on 10/12/2001 1:29:36 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor

In my local (Rochester NY), hospital procedure for dealing with pre-911 anthrax scares was that emergency room hospital staff wear special medical size-fitted masks covering the nose and mouth. They also wear body covering paper clothing.

Exiting, the clothes and masks are treated as hazardous waste. On removing the mask and clothing, the wearer would then take eight showers.

We've had yearly antrax scares for as long as I can remember. I don't think a gas mask would be necessary -- however, I don't know a source for the masks the hospitals use (but I do have a handfull stashed).

87 posted on 10/12/2001 1:29:41 PM PDT by Jack Barbara

To: francisandbeans

I'm a one note samba I know but it's the only thing I can do at this time and I think this is the most needful thing waiting to be done in our nation.

DEPORT NOW!!!

IT IS OUR LIVES AT STAKE!!!

88 posted on 10/12/2001 1:30:43 PM PDT by mercy

To: SauronOfMordor

can't believe the people behind this don't realize that one possible outcome of extreme general public hysteria might be turning the ground from Libya to Pakistan into one smooth sheet of glass

Kidding, right? We halted the friggin bombing today because it is a day of prayer. They know we aren´t going to do anything but sit back and let people die, cry, sing songs, raise flags and drop bombs from 30,000 feet. I wish you were right.

Also, Ashcroft says they can target our mail but we won´t stop delivering it. Who is they? Are they finally owning up to the fact that we may just have a little bit of a problem?

89 posted on 10/12/2001 1:34:47 PM PDT by riri

To: francisandbeans

FWIW the local Miami radio station reported that the envelope with white powder (which tested negative),received early on by a Hispanic family in Miami was supposedly from a group identifying itself as a Christian religious organization, asking for donations.

The radio reports quite a few stupid non-facts every day, but this one seems ironic enough to be at least interesting.

90 posted on 10/12/2001 1:37:04 PM PDT by browardchad

To: francisandbeans

"I believe that the feds are monitoring message boards sites like this. I am hoping this will at least put into thier thoughts that it is a possibility."

You may be on to something. A few days ago (maybe a week?) they announced they were putting together some kind of think tank with military strategists, suspense novel authors, and movie folks. The idea is that these people can put their heads together and think up potential terrorist strategies -- and solutions -- and head 'em off at the pass.

I kinda chuckled when I heard that, because I was instantly reminded of "Footfall" (a novel by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven). In that book, Nasa put something similar together with science fiction writers to try to get a jump on what the alien attackers were doing. When I read the book, I thought to myself "man, this isn't a bad book, but he lost it there -- no way would anything even remotely similar to that ever happen. The gov't asking fiction writers for help? The author is projecting!"

Now, it suddenly doesn't seem quite so absurd. So the idea that they'd be looking here for ideas isn't so far fetched either. I hope they're able to glean something from some of the better threads here. With the stakes as high as they are, anything that could help them deal with the enemy should not be disregarded.

91 posted on 10/12/2001 1:37:27 PM PDT by Don Joe

To: francisandbeans

All they need to do is put cameras at every mail drop and stamp all mail picked up at each mail drop with some kind of identifier and they can catch both real terrorists and pranksters. Put them all in the same prison.

92 posted on 10/12/2001 1:38:11 PM PDT by FITZ

Why is it so impossible to think that terrorists really ARE sending lots of the stuff through the mail? Perhaps they have figured out a way to suspend it in talcum powder or the like? Must we assume that our enemies are idiots? Must we assume that our enemies don't have the capability to make technological advances? In any war both sides seek to create new methods of killing the enemy. In any event, keep in mind that in the past the terrorist's biggest hits have been on the order of 10-100 dead at a clip. Why would they necessarily care if their delivery system was crude or easily treated. They are going to get SOME people. They are going to score SOME successes. Not everyone who opens mail keeps abreast of the news. So why is it impossible to imagine (like the notion of flying airliners into buildings) that they have developed a method to deliver anthrax through the mail? Because we haven't figured out how to do it? Well, there's no reason for us to figure that out. There is a reason for them to figure it out.

Just because they like to kill lots of people in one fell swoop, don't make the mistake of assuming that such is the only type of strike of interest to them. We are talking about asymetric warfare here, and it is best waged with multiple tactics, for the same reason why B-2s armed with nukes are not the only weapons in our arsenal. Yes, this small-scale bio attack is not killing many people, but it is starting to accomplish other things, which have been detailed elsewhere on this thread. All by itself, this wouldn't ammount to much. However, it needs to be viewed within the context of the Sept 11 strikes already undertaken, plus whatever they might have planned in the future. This antrhax scare has proven itself to be an effective way for them to keep the anxiety level up over a month after 9/11 at very low cost or risk of detection.

93 posted on 10/12/2001 1:39:37 PM PDT by Stefan Stackhouse

I have my own nutbag theory... hang on.... must adjust my tinfoil hat... Okay, here it goes. The U.S. has been looking for a reasonable excuse to justify assasinating Saddam Hussein. The CIA or NSA or a similar branch of U.S. gov't security that practices black ops needs to kill a few Americans with a biological weapon. Not too many deaths... just enough to spur public outrage further. Now who to kill...hmmm.... lawyers? Nawwww. They're a bunch of yapping dogs; sooner or later they'll figure it out and sue the government out of office. Stock promoters and dot com millionaires (if there are any left)? Nawwwww. They've had a rough enough time over the last year. Let's not be cruel. Hey!! How about the yellow media?! Yeah.... especially those tabloid guys. No one will care that much if they die. On to phase two. Once you have a few deaths, announce that the CDC has matched the Anthrax samples against samples found by UN inspectors before they were evicted from Iraq. Lo and behold, Iraq is the source of a biological attack on the U.S. Now we can drop a couple of W-80's on Saddam's home turf.

94 posted on 10/12/2001 1:40:46 PM PDT by Camerican

To: francisandbeans

Actually, I wouldn't flame you for that theory at all!!

It would be just like those evil worms to set up a "Boy who cried wolf" scenario. I just hope the FBI/CIA/CDC are smart enough to be on top of the schemes of the evil ones.

95 posted on 10/12/2001 1:42:17 PM PDT by RooRoobird14

Now its my turn. Are you my evil twin?;)

If millions of americans all at once found out that Biological weapons (weapons of mass destruction) were being used on us, even the sheep would demand what some here say, namely nuclear retaliation and mass roundups. Since the government has no intention of doing that, and since the ONLY reprisal we are going to do is bombing (see e.g. Lord Robertson's statement that there won't be any ground operation until spring (after we've all forgotten about this) (something I predicted since Spetember 13th or so) there then is a necessity to keep the people thinking that these anthrax exposures are isolated and ineffectual. If the people thought for a minute that this was a concerted use of weapons of mass destruction the outcry would be impossible to ignore. They're pulling the wool over our eyes, and don't think that Osama isn't noticing it either. It gives him carte blanche as long as we're covering for him.

96 posted on 10/12/2001 1:43:02 PM PDT by Loopy

To: francisandbeans

Please, please don't flame me. But is it possible that these media people thought they would do a story on a larger scale and got a hold of some and was careless? just a question from a newbie (please be kind...lol)

97 posted on 10/12/2001 1:43:05 PM PDT by chinatlc

The U.S. has been looking for a reasonable excuse to justify assasinating Saddam Hussein.

I fully expect someone at NBC to propose this theory, or more likely an alternate one: the great right-wing conspiracy is at work here.

98 posted on 10/12/2001 1:45:37 PM PDT by browardchad

Okay, here it goes. The U.S. has been looking for a reasonable excuse to justify assasinating Saddam Hussein

Link Iraq to the WTC attack.
Anthrax not needed.

99 posted on 10/12/2001 1:46:13 PM PDT by PRND21

To: francisandbeans

Some I agree with, some I think you're whacky. This puts you a step above many theorists on FR, I actually think somethings you say make sense. Let me go through it:

The media is a target for a very specific reason. This prevents the government from covering up the details. This is why they went after the sensationalist media and why they went after a major broadcast network. The delivery system is designed not to maximize death, but to make us "anthrax aware"

This is solid. Media is a good target for a subtle attack because media love being part of the story, it's a sickness they have that will cause this story to develop a lot more "legs" than it deserves thus spreading more panic than the threat warrants.

Reportedly, the anthrax was mailed in a white powder. Along with the actual cases, we are finding cases of white powder mailings with no anthrax. Many have speculated that the white powder is done by sick pranksters. I think this is an impossibility. Let me explain...
We learned about the white powder on Monday evening (via Newsweek). Tuesday, we saw several packages and envelopes with white powder show up. It is nearly impossible for a prankster to gather themselves quickly enough to do it.

This I heavily disagree with. What's so "quickly" about it. The hardest part in this is getting the anthrax, if you've scored that already I could prepare this, by myself with no help, in 2 days tops. Between the websites and the mastheads of the media organizations the addresses and worker names are easy to get, other than that it's just envelop stuffing. My wife and I prepped 150 wedding invitations in one night, and she had to write all the addresses (my handwriting is notorious for getting mail sent to "dead letter"). After that it's just a matter of dropping them in a corner box. Anybody that could get the anthrax for this "prank" on friday could have everything else done and in the mail monday morning with no extra tool more exciting than a computer.

There is a plan in action:
Part A:) mail out packages with anthrax contained in a white powder.
Part B:) mail out packages without anthrax, but with the white powder.

There's a lot of possibilities here on how to stage it if you actually want to stage it in phases. I would just put the "real" envelopes in a corner box, and put the "fake" envelopes in an appartment drop slot (you know those ones with 1 outgoing and a bunch of incomings where the resident needs a key, in Tucson you find these actually on the road in front of small apartment complexes). Corner boxes get much faster delivery (1 or 2 days less) than residential boxes especially if you get your stuff in before the 8 AMish pickup, some people actually got our wedding invitations the same day we mailed them. This would allow your deliveries to phase in without the risk of running drops on multiple days. Or you could hold onto the safe envelopes, it's pretty easy to mail a lot of stuff anonymously in this country, just gotta get downtown where the corner boxes are.

What does this do?
CDC has to investigate each of these powder instances. This will strecth thier resources. If enough actual anthrax envelopes are sent out, the US mail will be severly slowed or stop al together. This will have a massive effect on our psyche, our economy and our Law Enforcement community.

The CDC stretching is what most people would think, and they'd be wrong. CDC actually works very oddly, there are doctors all over the country that are actually part of CDC but only do CDC related stuff if something bad happens in their area (that's why they're so fast to respond to stuff), and they work through FEMA and other emergency organization. Minor outbreaks (or threatened outbreaks) all over the country won't stretch their resources at all. As for slowing down the mail, could happen, probably wouldn't affect commercial mail (if the bad guy has infiltrated Amazon.com we're in bigger trouble than we thought), in the end wouldn't do that much to us. 10 years ago before all this internet junk it would have really hurt, since then most mail in this country get's thrown out before entering the house.

What they will do is play the Anthrax Russian Roulette with these packages until the fed decides to start issuing massive amounts of antibiotics to the populace...therfore reducing our supply.

Could be there plan but won't work. The drug industry in this country makes so damn many pills it's obscene. Scattered cases, even giving supplies to 700 people per building won't seriously dent the supplies. Not with the speed they can be made in. It would probably take an hour to replace all the antibiotics handed out to AMI employees earlier in the week.

Now, with antibiotics increasingly rare and the CDC and other departments stretched to thier limit...the terrorists are free to strike a full scale bio-attack and us unable to treat those infected.

This is the real threat, with or without the "hoped for" effects. A major hit would beat us up bad with or without CDC or antibiotics. If you an manage to "dose" a couple million people at once we're in trouble. Of course we'll nuke your ass pretty quick afters, but we'll still hurt bad.

Overall I think this is either the work of loan buttheads (never rule out the possibility of more than one guy getting the same idea, happens in the gaming industry all the time), or a rather small time terrorist org trying to look big time. More than likely I don't see that much of a threat of major biological attack. Bio-agents are a big pain in the butt to store safely and deliver effectively, they go bad and have to be replaced, grow out of control and kill your workers, just annoying. My bigger concern in chemical. Chemical is easy, especially with obl's resources. All you need is an insecticide plant and a couple of vats mixed stronger than usual (which isn't hard, look at the active ingredients percentage on your can of Raid, those things are mixed REALLY weak). Dump this crap in the water supply, or the ever popular crop duster angle and we've got issues, and chemicals are a lot easier to work with than bio-agents. If you're people are patient you don't even need the whole plant, just buy a few cases of Raid, dump the contents and mixout the inert ingredients. A couple of gallons of "pure" bug spray can wreak a lot of havoc.

100 posted on 10/12/2001 1:47:24 PM PDT by discostu

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