The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 162

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 161

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The Church from Apostolic times has baptized infants on the say-so of their parents Chapter and verse please. St. Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition, ca. 215 A.D. Baptize first the children; and, if they can speak for themselves, let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them. Origen, Commentaries on Leviticus, A.D. 244. Baptism is given even to infants. Commentaries on Romans, A.D. 244. The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants. For the Apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the innate stains of sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit.

Oh 215 and 244 are apostolic times now? I think not........Since you're taken over for RobbyS, again, chapter and verse please. Preferably from the Bible. You know that book you guys sometimes refer to when it helps ya.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Seems to me that your faith had already soured.

I have much more faith now that I'm not in bondage to the catholic magic sternum.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Oh, sorry, I forgot. Some of you Protestants don't believe in history.

Oh, ya mean the history you call "apostolic times" even though the last apostle was dead about 115 years by then? I can't even believe you tried to slam that one through.

[JHavard]

Because Vatican II issued no solemn definitions, it is all just Ordinary Magisterium. About 21 councils have issued solemn definitons, and the Pope (not our present Pope) has done it twice. There are something like 250 doctrines which have been solemnly defined.

It would seem to me that it doesn’t really matter if the canon scripture supports your doctrine or not, if you want something in your doctrine bad enough, you can within your beliefs, make it doctrine regardless.

You can take some word or scripture that has no connection to the issue, proclaim it a mystery or a paradox, and then use Mt 16:19 to support your right to do as you please with it.

Now, I'm not going to make a judgment on this practice, but I do wonder why you then go on the defensive defending what you did, and trying to give us biblical backing for your decision, when all you had to do was say, "Peter was given the authority to change or create any doctrine he wished, and God promised to back him up, and since we are the successor of Peter, we have the same authority that he did.

I would accept this reasoning a lot easier then the way you go about defending the indefensible now, and I would have to admit what you did then was your business, and it was between you and God, and it wasn't any of our business what you did in your own Church. :-)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

chapter and verse please. Preferably from the Bible. You know that book you guys sometimes refer to when it helps ya.

Funniest dam thing I've read all day. ROTFLMAO. :)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

To: dignan3

162:2

..."can I get a witness from the congregation ?" If you mean "Amen" , certainly . AMEN!!

38 Posted on 10/11/2001 14:23:18 PDT by dadwags

Suck UP! :)

BigMack

[Iowegian]

Oh 215 and 244 are apostolic times now? I think not........

Nice catch there, Esteban. And they wonder why we don't trust their view of "history". Truly unbiased it is. (/sarcasm)

[Iowegian]

That would be consistent with the need for the virgin birth !

Yes, that's the main reason I hold that view. God bless.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I beleive the bible is inspired because :Heb.6:18 it is impossible for God to lie. 2 Pet. 1:21 HE says he inspired men to write it.

Now do you believe the bible is the word of God because God says it. or because man says it? Do your children believe you are ther father becasue you told them or because the neighbor told them?

Sorry for the delay in answering but I have been out of town today visiting my father.

Becky

[malakhi]

I have much more faith now that I'm not in bondage to the catholic magic sternum.

Who first came up with the whole "magic sternum" thing anyway?

[malakhi]

Sorry for the delay in answering but I have been out of town today visiting my father.

No problem!

I beleive the bible is inspired because :Heb.6:18 it is impossible for God to lie.

You believe it is impossible for God to lie because a passage in the Bible says so? I find that odd. I believe it is impossible for God to lie because He is God.

Now do you believe the bible is the word of God because God says it. or because man says it?

I don't believe in the inspiration of scripture on its own say-so. I believe the Tanakh is inspired because GOD said it is inspired. Now, he didn't tell me directly. He told my ancestors, who passed this belief down to me. The Book of Mormon and the Koran both claim to be inspired by God. Despite their self-referencing claims, I don't believe that they are. I do believe the testimony of my ancestors, who witnessed the revelation on Sinai, and who received the Law from God Himself.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I do believe the testimony of my ancestors, who witnessed the revelation on Sinai, and who received the Law from God Himself.

Yeah, and the bible tells us alot about how much integrity they had. I'd believe them over what God says anyday.

Becky

[malakhi]

Yeah, and the bible tells us alot about how much integrity they had. I'd believe them over what God says anyday.

Becky, even when there were many bad Israelites (there were always some, sometimes many), there were always good ones, too, a remnant who remained faithful to the Covenant.

Frankly, you have no choice but to believe them. They handed the scriptures down to us. You only know "what God says" in scripture because of generation after generation of Jews who painstakingly hand-copied the scrolls of the Tanakh. To say that those who passed the scriptures down to us are unreliable is to question the reliability of the scriptures they transmitted.

What about the Koran. It claims to be inspired by God, too. How do you know that it is not?

[JHavard]

To say that those who passed the scriptures down to us are unreliable is to question the reliability of the scriptures they transmitted.

I have to agree with you on this one, even the New Testament Scripture supports that.

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
V-2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

What wouldn't the RCC's give to have biblical support like that(question mark) Lol

[Pelayo]

C'mon, Pelayo, 4th graders are nine years old. How mature were you at that age? Sheesh.

I never played around with the Bible. And, all of the altar boys at my parish, meny of whom are 4th graders, take their duty seriously.