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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 162
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

Posted on 10/11/2001 9:39:48 AM PDT by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 161


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
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To: Havoc
Well, let's see now, Catholicism had been an oppressor in Europe for a long long time. Catholics coming to this country were not going to be allowed to lord themselves over the people in the new world the way they had in the old. And when it comes to exclusion, the Catholic Church has excluded itself. It was the Catholic Church that couldn't abide core christian teachings in the schools so Catholicism excluded itself from the school system and teaches their own form of history, and its religion. So let's us just get it strait and paint the backdrop that existed

Thank you Havoc for this great response, now everyone can see why we keep you around. hahaha I'm kidding of course, it's God who keeps you around.

401 posted on 10/14/2001 8:50:49 AM PDT by JHavard
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To: Havoc
This is so totally daft that it is hard to respond to. On the other hand, it represents the "thinking" of a lot of people I have met. So later, after a Sunday drive.
402 posted on 10/14/2001 9:05:57 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: pegleg; JHavard
pegleg;JHavard

pegleg>

I will say this one more time. No Protestant can trace the beginning of their church before the
reformation. You can do like many do on these threads and refuse to admit you’re a Protestant. You
can also pretend there was an invisible church for 1500+ years. You can also claim that it doesn't
matter what church you belong to or even claim you don't need to belong to any church. However, one
thing you cannot do is provide any documentation to back up your claims. It's just wishful thinking on
your part which makes it a fantasy.

Unless you are Catholic or Orthodox, you cannot trace your Church or its beliefs to the Church Christ
established. That my friend, is a FACT.

I have only one question. Are you a member of a corporation or are you a follower of the Christ.

May I lead you to be a follower of Y'shua HaMashiach ?

Your salvation does not depend on what took place before
you accept Y'shua HaMashiach as your L-rd and Savior.

Tehillim (Psalm) 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

XeniaSt

403 posted on 10/14/2001 9:16:25 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012
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To: angelo
Well, they didn't just materialize from thin air.

Well every Protestant Church can be traced to a human founder from Luther to the present.

Despite how they may have branched off since that time, all christians ARE descended from that early church. It is tautological. If they weren't, they wouldn't be christian.

You are straying from the topic as is everybody else who has responded to me. My original post was to refute the silly claim that the Baptist denomination has been around since the time of the Apostles. No Protestant can trace their church and their distinctive teachings before the reformation.

404 posted on 10/14/2001 9:19:40 AM PDT by pegleg
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To: angelo
Regarding your earlier posts, apparently you don't believe, a I do, that the USA has always been the beacon of freedom, liberty and democracy to the world. It's very sad that you have let the actions of a few bad apples give you the wrong impression of America's history. You sound just like the liberals. Is our country perfect? Of course not, we never have and we will never be, it's all because of our true nature as people since the fall of man. I know you can find instances of the things, but look at our present condition, RC's and other non-Protestant faith groups are NOT oppressed in the USA compared to the rest of the world.
405 posted on 10/14/2001 9:27:02 AM PDT by Iowegian
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To: JHavard
You are wrong, My Church is recorded in Acts 11:26

Sorry, that was my church that was recorded there. At best, you might be able to trace your church back about 100 years.

Sorry, but your Church has a 300 year gap in it that you cannot account for with out falsified and forged doccuments, and if God had intended for you to make this connection, he would have done so with out the need to lie.

My Church does not have a 300 year gap. It is very well documented. Its just easier for you to deny the truth and throw your bogus claims around as if they should be taken seriously. Your church has about a 1900 year gap and you have made no effort to close it except to call the Catholic Church a lie.

406 posted on 10/14/2001 9:28:47 AM PDT by pegleg
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To: XeniaSt
I have only one question. Are you a member of a corporation or are you a follower of the Christ.

I am a member of the Church Christ established. You should do the same.

407 posted on 10/14/2001 9:30:45 AM PDT by pegleg
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To: Pelayo
Not Matthew.

Show us the non-Greek manuscripts from the early centuries time as proof. Oh that's right, there aren't any, but there are many Greek manuscripts. Case closed.

408 posted on 10/14/2001 9:32:43 AM PDT by Iowegian
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To: pegleg
Pegleg

I am a member of the Church Christ established. You should do the same.

407 posted on 10/14/01 10:30 AM Mountain by pegleg

You may believe so and protest so,
but you speak as if your corporate titles are more important that doing the L-rd's work.

I would suggest that you may have false gods before the L-rd.

My L-rd says that that the only thing above His Name is His Word.

Tehillim (Psalm) 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Saviour!

409 posted on 10/14/2001 9:42:50 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012
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To: angelo
Are you the product of a Catholic school education? I think it shows and gives you a sometimes prejudicial viewpoint. The things you describe cannot be truly described as religious oppression, relative to the rest of the world. There are many Protestants in America that have been "oppressed" by Catholics (if we use your loose definition).
410 posted on 10/14/2001 9:47:50 AM PDT by Iowegian
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To: RobbyS
How did we get the seperation of church and state? It's those same (mostly Protestant) founders that put it in the first place. And why? As a remedy against what happened to them in Europe. It was to keep the state out of the church.They wanted no state churches, total freedom of religion and worship as each chooses. This is proof that RC's are not really oppressed in the USA.

As I stated before, this is, and your response is all irrelevant to the real point. I wasn't talking about government, I was talking about the Roman Catholic church itself that is, in essence, fascist.

411 posted on 10/14/2001 9:56:08 AM PDT by Iowegian
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To: angelo
Absolute: How to get to be saved: John 14:6 Rom. 10:9 John 6:28-29

Where is the truth found: John 14:6, John 17:17.

Becky

412 posted on 10/14/2001 10:36:27 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: JHavard
162:399
In 162:371, you say that Jesus quoted from the LXX and in 399, you say he didn't . Man, you are really credible today .NOT!
413 posted on 10/14/2001 1:49:50 PM PDT by dadwags
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To: pegleg
My Church does not have a 300 year gap. It is very well documented. Its just easier for you to deny the truth and throw your bogus claims around as if they should be taken seriously. Your church has about a 1900 year gap and you have made no effort to close it except to call the Catholic Church a lie.

It is well documented, and if you still don't believe it, we will make some more. Lol

There are more then 25 solid scriptures that says God now dwells in man, and not in buildings made with hands, how can a spiritual Church be traced through history using physical men as proof of what direction it went?

As the Jews took almost 1500 years to show us that man can not keep the Commandments or please God by physically trying to keep them, the self imposed Catholic leaders proved that physical man can not run a spiritual Church.

The word Protestant was not a proper name, it is an action taken, when men who claimed to have the authority of God, tramples the ones that they claim to be on earth to protect and serve. It's the shepherd that terrorizes his own flock.

414 posted on 10/14/2001 1:50:45 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: dadwags
In 162:371, you say that Jesus quoted from the LXX and in 399, you say he didn't . Man, you are really credible today .NOT!

You have certainly lost it, I said you can't prove that the Septaugint that was read, had the Apocryphal in it, since there are no copies of it left.

Why don't you rest up today and take another shot at it tomorrow? :-)

415 posted on 10/14/2001 1:59:20 PM PDT by JHavard
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How did we get the seperation of church and state? It's those same (mostly Protestant) founders that put it
in the first place. And why? As a remedy against what happened to them in Europe. It was to keep the
state out of the church.They wanted no state churches, total freedom of religion and worship as each
chooses. This is proof that RC's are not really oppressed in the USA.

As I stated before, this is, and your response is all irrelevant to the real point. I wasn't talking about
government, I was talking about the Roman Catholic church itself that is, in essence, fascist.

411 posted on 10/14/01 10:56 AM Mountain by Iowegian

There is no such thing as seperation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution.

That is a Democrat (Marxist-Leninist) deconstruction.

This is a Christian nation. Christ is our only King!

This was not ever to be a denominationalist nation.

Tehillim (Psalm) 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Saviour!

XeniaSt

416 posted on 10/14/2001 2:08:31 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012
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To: XeniaSt
There is no such thing as seperation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution.

I agree with this and the rest of your post. There are references by the founders to the seperation of church and state ( but not in the Constitution) and my comment was only showing what they meant, to keep the state out of the church, not to keep those of faith out of the government (as some allege).

417 posted on 10/14/2001 2:33:20 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: JHavard
There are more then 25 solid scriptures that says God now dwells in man, and not in buildings made with hands, how can a spiritual Church be traced through history using physical men as proof of what direction it went?

As I thought. You can't prove anything. I rest my case.

418 posted on 10/14/2001 2:37:26 PM PDT by pegleg
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To: pegleg
I will say this one more time. No Protestant can trace the beginning of their church before the reformation. You can do like many do on these threads and refuse to admit you’re a Protestant. You can also pretend there was an invisible church for 1500+ years. You can also claim that it doesn't matter what church you belong to or even claim you don't need to belong to any church. However, one thing you cannot do is provide any documentation to back up your claims. It's just wishful thinking on your part which makes it a fantasy. Unless you are Catholic or Orthodox, you cannot trace your Church or its beliefs to the Church Christ established. That my friend, is a FACT.

1 Corinthians 1:
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and {that} there be no divisions among you; but {that} ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [11] For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them {which are of the house} of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. [13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? [14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; [15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. [16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. [17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. [18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [19] For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. [20] Where {is} the wise? where {is} the scribe? where {is} the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [21] For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. [22] For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: [23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; [24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. [25] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. [26] For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, {are called}: [27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; [28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, {yea, } and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: [29] That no flesh should glory in his presence. [30] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: [31] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Paul preached against this very nonsense - and you're in there. People who need a sign, speak more with wisdom of words, and seek after the wisdom of men. All rolled into one chapter.

You want to claim you can trace yourselves all the way back to Jesus. All of us who are Christians can do that - no big feat. We are all second Generation at most; because there is one person at most between us and the scripture that we believed in order to be saved. We are all fruits of the Scripture. You make claims to the carnal - as tho it mattered. Tha is to impress people with. There is no one here to impress. Which leaves the claim.

The claim being worthless is without a doubt. Your claim goes to the Papal deed, which is not proven; but a claim in itself. That's two layers of claims already and I haven't even started yet. If we are going to prove the deed, we must take the first person on the list, Peter. OOPS. Can't prove him. In fact, you can't prove, what, about 3.5 centuries (thats 350 years for those in Rio-Linda) worth of 'popes'. For 350 years you can't prove anything.

But, we're just getting started still. How many different copies of the Papal deed exist? I have 16 now, each one purporting to be authoritative. Names appear on some which aren't there on others, then majically reappear yet again. There are names on some with certain dates, then the dates change, the order.... This is an admission in itself, the RCC is clueless.

Let's recap:
* Peter went to Rome - Unproven.
* Peter was Bishop of Rome - Unproven.
* 350 years worth of bishops - Unproven.
* Papal Deed - Unproven.
And the first actual documented account of the word Catholic as a proper noun doesn't show up till some 400 plus years after the presumed death date of Paul.

Any more uproven worthless and pointless claims to make? Paul has more to say.

419 posted on 10/14/2001 3:12:35 PM PDT by Havoc
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To: RobbyS
This is so totally daft that it is hard to respond to.

I wonder if this is code for "Oh crap, I guess I have to read something again."

420 posted on 10/14/2001 3:45:46 PM PDT by Havoc
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