Posted on 10/11/2001 9:39:48 AM PDT by malakhi
Thank you Havoc for this great response, now everyone can see why we keep you around. hahaha I'm kidding of course, it's God who keeps you around.
pegleg>
I will say this one more time. No Protestant can trace the beginning of their church before the
reformation. You can do like many do on these threads and refuse to admit you’re a Protestant. You
can also pretend there was an invisible church for 1500+ years. You can also claim that it doesn't
matter what church you belong to or even claim you don't need to belong to any church. However, one
thing you cannot do is provide any documentation to back up your claims. It's just wishful thinking on
your part which makes it a fantasy.
Unless you are Catholic or Orthodox, you cannot trace your Church or its beliefs to the Church Christ
established. That my friend, is a FACT.
I have only one question. Are you a member of a corporation or are you a follower of the Christ.
May I lead you to be a follower of Y'shua HaMashiach ?
Your salvation does not depend on what took place before
you accept Y'shua HaMashiach as your L-rd and Savior.
Tehillim (Psalm) 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
XeniaSt
Well every Protestant Church can be traced to a human founder from Luther to the present.
Despite how they may have branched off since that time, all christians ARE descended from that early church. It is tautological. If they weren't, they wouldn't be christian.
You are straying from the topic as is everybody else who has responded to me. My original post was to refute the silly claim that the Baptist denomination has been around since the time of the Apostles. No Protestant can trace their church and their distinctive teachings before the reformation.
Sorry, that was my church that was recorded there. At best, you might be able to trace your church back about 100 years.
Sorry, but your Church has a 300 year gap in it that you cannot account for with out falsified and forged doccuments, and if God had intended for you to make this connection, he would have done so with out the need to lie.
My Church does not have a 300 year gap. It is very well documented. Its just easier for you to deny the truth and throw your bogus claims around as if they should be taken seriously. Your church has about a 1900 year gap and you have made no effort to close it except to call the Catholic Church a lie.
I am a member of the Church Christ established. You should do the same.
Show us the non-Greek manuscripts from the early centuries time as proof. Oh that's right, there aren't any, but there are many Greek manuscripts. Case closed.
I am a member of the Church Christ established. You should do the same.
407 posted on 10/14/01 10:30 AM Mountain by pegleg
You may believe so and protest so,
but you speak as if your corporate titles are more important that doing the L-rd's work.
I would suggest that you may have false gods before the L-rd.
My L-rd says that that the only thing above His Name is His Word.
Tehillim (Psalm) 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Saviour!
As I stated before, this is, and your response is all irrelevant to the real point. I wasn't talking about government, I was talking about the Roman Catholic church itself that is, in essence, fascist.
Where is the truth found: John 14:6, John 17:17.
Becky
It is well documented, and if you still don't believe it, we will make some more. Lol
There are more then 25 solid scriptures that says God now dwells in man, and not in buildings made with hands, how can a spiritual Church be traced through history using physical men as proof of what direction it went?
As the Jews took almost 1500 years to show us that man can not keep the Commandments or please God by physically trying to keep them, the self imposed Catholic leaders proved that physical man can not run a spiritual Church.
The word Protestant was not a proper name, it is an action taken, when men who claimed to have the authority of God, tramples the ones that they claim to be on earth to protect and serve. It's the shepherd that terrorizes his own flock.
You have certainly lost it, I said you can't prove that the Septaugint that was read, had the Apocryphal in it, since there are no copies of it left.
Why don't you rest up today and take another shot at it tomorrow? :-)
There is no such thing as seperation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution.
That is a Democrat (Marxist-Leninist) deconstruction.
This is a Christian nation. Christ is our only King!
This was not ever to be a denominationalist nation.
Tehillim (Psalm) 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Saviour!
XeniaSt
I agree with this and the rest of your post. There are references by the founders to the seperation of church and state ( but not in the Constitution) and my comment was only showing what they meant, to keep the state out of the church, not to keep those of faith out of the government (as some allege).
As I thought. You can't prove anything. I rest my case.
1 Corinthians 1:
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and {that} there be no divisions among you; but {that} ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [11] For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them {which are of the house} of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. [13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? [14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; [15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. [16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. [17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. [18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [19] For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. [20] Where {is} the wise? where {is} the scribe? where {is} the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [21] For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. [22] For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: [23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; [24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. [25] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. [26] For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, {are called}: [27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; [28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, {yea, } and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: [29] That no flesh should glory in his presence. [30] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: [31] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Paul preached against this very nonsense - and you're in there. People who need a sign, speak more with wisdom of words, and seek after the wisdom of men. All rolled into one chapter.
You want to claim you can trace yourselves all the way back to Jesus. All of us who are Christians can do that - no big feat. We are all second Generation at most; because there is one person at most between us and the scripture that we believed in order to be saved. We are all fruits of the Scripture. You make claims to the carnal - as tho it mattered. Tha is to impress people with. There is no one here to impress. Which leaves the claim.
The claim being worthless is without a doubt. Your claim goes to the Papal deed, which is not proven; but a claim in itself. That's two layers of claims already and I haven't even started yet. If we are going to prove the deed, we must take the first person on the list, Peter. OOPS. Can't prove him. In fact, you can't prove, what, about 3.5 centuries (thats 350 years for those in Rio-Linda) worth of 'popes'. For 350 years you can't prove anything.
But, we're just getting started still. How many different copies of the Papal deed exist? I have 16 now, each one purporting to be authoritative. Names appear on some which aren't there on others, then majically reappear yet again. There are names on some with certain dates, then the dates change, the order.... This is an admission in itself, the RCC is clueless.
Let's recap:
* Peter went to Rome - Unproven.
* Peter was Bishop of Rome - Unproven.
* 350 years worth of bishops - Unproven.
* Papal Deed - Unproven.
And the first actual documented account of the word Catholic as a proper noun doesn't show up till some 400 plus years after the presumed death date of Paul.
Any more uproven worthless and pointless claims to make? Paul has more to say.
I wonder if this is code for "Oh crap, I guess I have to read something again."
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