Posted on 11/30/2006 5:56:24 PM PST by Trteamer
I am going to be going to the legislature to get a gun law passed an I would like to get you FReepers input and advise. It's not an anti-gun law I want to pass, but one to protect us gun buyers........
I'll tell you a story, this just happened to me the end of September:
For two years I planned and saved up to go to Canada goose hunting. We booked a trip with a good outfitter and did everything right in planning on visiting Canada. Got my passport, filled out all the correct forms, etc. We drove up to Sasketechewan and the story took a turn for the worse at the border.
We pulled up to U.S. Customs at the border and they asked us the purpose of our trip. We told them goose hunting and they asked to see our firearms. There is a new form you fill out to take guns across the border so they needed to check them. I brought two shotguns with me. When they ran the serial numbers, they said "Come with us" and escorted me into the back of the border station. I was informed that one of my shotguns was in the FBI database as being stolen.
I was shocked. "Where did you get it" they asked, to which I immediately told them I bought it used, legally from Garretson's Sporting Goods in Greeley, Colorado, about eight years ago. They said "Prove it". Luckily my wife is an excellent record keeper. I called her on the phone and she went into our file cabinet and pulled out the bill of sale. She faxed it up to Customs and got me off the hook. Had she not had the bill fo sale I would have been arrested for possession of a stolen firearm. I will not go into the details of my Custom's visit, except that they confiscated the shotgun and it took 2 1/2 hours to get cleared to continue on to Canadian Customs. The Canadian Customs guys heard about it and told me I was lucky I didn't fly into Canada or I would have been arrested.
The point is: Firearms dealers in Colorado are not required by law to check the serial number of a gun when they take it in on trade. Garretson's sold me a hot gun! When I got back from the trip I had to go to Garretson's and dig out the original background check information to fax up to the Sherriff in Montana as well as the Greeley Police detective investigating the crime. We know who bought the gun originally, we know who stole it, and since the statute of limitations ran out, the thief got away with it. I have still not gotten the gun back as the Sherriff in Montana is draging his feet about shipping it back.
There has got to be a requirement that gun dealers check the serial numbers of a gun when they take one in on trade. A simple phone call to law enforcement is all it would take so they can run the number in their database.
How can I get this into law? How much help will the NRA and Gun Owners of America be? What is you FReepers opinion on this? I do not intend for this to be abused and contorted by the anti-gunners, I just don't want to be sold another hot gun in the future. I can't believe you have to verify the VIN number on a car, boat, atv, etc., but not the serial number of a firearm when trading it in.
Thankfully my shotgun was a cheap Mossberg and not an expensive Benelli. I still want it back, but what can I do if the Sherriff in Montana doesn't want to send it back?
Please ping your bang-list for me, Thanks!
To ping the banglist, just add the keyword BANGLIST to your post. I've done it for you on this thread.
If I were you I'd think about taking Garretson's to small claims court.
Hire a lawyer. Sue the bastards. They deserve it.
Sounds to me less of a gun issue and more of a stolen property issue.
Garretson's broke no laws in selling me the gun. They are not required to, and have no way to check to see if a gun is stolen when they take it in on trade. I've talked to a lot of gun dealers lately and none of them check since the ATF has not set up an easy way for them to run serial numbers. They all figure it is not their problem.
make sure in your law you state that when a gun reaches the statute of limitations then it is removed from the hot list...
and hunt in your own country, canada geese know no boundaries...
and definitely hire a montana lawyer to retrieve your gun...
teeman
A lawyer would cost me a heck of a lot more than a new shotgun.
The next time I want to hunt Snow Geese, I'm going to Texas!
Talk to a lawyer. Garretson's may not have a legal responsibility to check the gun but they could be held liable for the contingent costs associated with your spoiled trip. You could recover your costs and be paid for your trouble.
"OH I'm just a bill yes I am only a Bill and I'm sitting here on capital hill. Oh I hope I'll be a law someday, oh I hope and pray that I will but today I am still just a bill!"
I learned more from School House Rock than I did for elemantary school.
Just because they broke no laws does not mean they are not liable in a civil court.
They sold you merchandise with a defective title. They purchased the gun without performing due dilligence in determining the legality of the merchandise. They also are a Federally licensed firearms dealer, and if they are selling stolen guns, they could have their license revoked.
Shoot the geese AFTER they fly over the border. ;-)
The gun doesn't belong to you. It was stolen. It belongs to the owner and that's who they legal must give it back to, unless it is unclaimed. Obviously, since the owner notified police it was stolen, he made a claim for it and the gun is his.
The firearm dealer already has a responsibility to make sure the gun was not stolen, because he bought it from a private party. He's the one that could be charged with receiving and dealing in stolen merchandise. So it's up to you to sue him for your losses.
Aweful story---save those receipts and carry copies!
PLEASE however---don't ask the MAN to pass another law regarding anything to do with the sale or ownership of firearms.
Some lib would be happy to quote this story chapter and verse as reason to end the sale of second hand guns by ANYONE without having some form of registration scheme.
I hope that (at least) a nice shiny NEW gun was offered up by the people that sold the 'Hot' gun after all that crap.
Imagine the thought of time in a Canadian jail--- I bet they serve good breakfasts however! :')
Luckily I brought two shotguns with me on the trip, so I was still allowed to go on up and hunt with the other one.
What I think is really needed is for the ATF to grant access to some sort of on-line database for gun dealers. The Canadian Customs guys have access, why not a federally licensed firearms dealer?
When I buy a gun in NC, the gun store calls someone (the FBI?) and reads the make, model, and serial number of the gun, and my name and address. After a couple of minutes, the gun is cleared, I write a check, and I'm out the door.
Are you alright? I don't have a clue what you wrote?
Your right, the gun does not belong to me. The original owner has already gotten paid by his insurance company for the gun and has expressed to me that if he gets it back he will give it to me. The whole thing kind of sucks.
If any of you have ever bought a used firearm, I hope you still have the bill of sale. It just might keep you out of jail if you are ever out in public and get checked. Don't plan on crossing the border or the same thing just might happen to you.
That has come to mind. I'm sure with the Dem's in control they would want to twist this into a registration scheme of some sort. If the ATF would just give the dealers access to their database, maybe more gun thiefs would be caught. I don't expect the ATF to do such a thing, it would take common sense. Maybe I'll just drop the whole idea, but it still pisses me off.
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