South Dakota: House panel rejects smoking bill

aberdeennews.com ^ | Jan. 21, 2004 | JOE KAFKA

[SheLion]

PIERRE, S.D. - An effort on behalf of smokers who want to once again be allowed to light up at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings failed miserably Wednesday in the Legislature.

The House Health Committee killed a bill 11-1 that would have made an exception to the 2002 state law that forbids smoking in most places open to the public. HB1086 would have provided an exemption for meeting rooms used by support groups for those with alcohol, drug and gambling problems.

Rep. Claire Konold, R-Watertown, offered the measure. He said many alcoholics are now avoiding Alcoholics Anonymous meetings because they may no longer smoke at those sessions.

"It is very important for those people to get to these meetings," Konold said.

Alcoholism is a serious disease, and people who have the problem should not be deterred from seeking help through support groups, he said.

However, opponents of the bill said people who smoke can hold off for the hour or so that the meetings last.

"They don't have to smoke all the time," said Rep. Bill Thompson, D-Sioux Falls.

"They do have an option. It's to step outside," added Rep. Jeffrey Haverly, R-Rapid City.

Others said this is no time to reverse progress made in 2002 when legislators banned smoking in most public places. Opponents of HB1086 also said that allowing smoking at meetings for people with alcohol, drug and gambling addictions would cause many nonsmokers to avoid the meetings.

"This is taking a great big step backwards," warned Rep. Larry Frost, R-Aberdeen.

People have the right to be free from the ill effects of secondhand smoke, said Kitty Kinsman, lobbyist for the Tobacco-Free Kids Network. The bill should be killed because it would allow smoking anywhere in meeting rooms used by people with alcohol problems, she said.

"We should not be trading one addiction for another," said Kinsman, former state health secretary.

Louis Peta, a former smoker from Pierre who has been in AA since 1976, was among those to testify Wednesday against the bill. He said legislators should not give a special exemption to alcoholics who smoke.

Smoking at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings became an issue last year in Hughes County when a Fort Pierre man was charged with breaking the law. Bernie Bergeson insisted that the meeting hall in Pierre was not a public place, but he was convicted and ordered to pay a $20 fine.

State law forbids smoking in most indoor areas where the public is invited or permitted. The law does not restrict smoking in motel rooms, casinos, bars, restaurants serving liquor, and stores that primarily sell liquor or tobacco.

[Hot Tabasco]

Not to worry, once the anti's set their sights on alcohol (which they are already via increasing alcohol taxes) these AA folks won't have to worry about the lure of evil alcohol anymore.....

[Hot Tabasco]

That would be crossing the line, however, can you cite an example of this happening?

Where the hell have you been? All these smoking threads are about the various and sundry bans against privately owned bars to prevent these owners from allowing smoking in their privately owned establishments. All these threads also cite the facts of bars and restaurants across this country that have gone out of business or have lost revenues because of these disgracing anti-property rights violations!

[VRWC_minion]

In CT, most AA meetings are held in Churches and all Churches are nonsmoking buildings. The smokers cope by going on breaks. Further, most hold AA meetings and Al-anon and Al-teen meetings at the same time and the nondrinkers are mostly nonsmokers who have no sympathy what-so-ever of alcholic having to go outside for a cigarette. for them it couldn't be cold and nasty enough.

[VRWC_minion]

I suppose that you don't have any sympathy for the owners of private property that can no longer allow a legal activity to occur on their own property.What legal activity ? Once its banned its illegal.

[D-fendr_2]

Gratitude is one thing. Self righteousness egotism is quite another.

[SheLion]

In CT, most AA meetings are held in Churches and all Churches are nonsmoking buildings. The smokers cope by going on breaks. Further, most hold AA meetings and Al-anon and Al-teen meetings at the same time and the nondrinkers are mostly nonsmokers who have no sympathy what-so-ever of alcholic having to go outside for a cigarette. for them it couldn't be cold and nasty enough.

And this is something you have experienced???

[SheLion]

Where the hell have you been?

My Gawd! Good answer. Some of these people must be living in a VACUUM!!!

[D-fendr_2]

Look, here's my point. This is an article about AA. AA is perfectly capable of conducting their own meetings with their own rules and traditions - traditions with a single purpose: to help other alcoholics recover from alcoholism.

These are people trying to learn to live sober and repair lives damaged greatly by alcoholism. Only one in ten make it with God's help. Most will end up dead or in institutions with many others harmed along the way.

Quiting smoking is the least of their worries.

Dictating that they must - at this critical moment - also go through nicotine withdrawals, that "they look and smell really disgusting smoking a cigaretter," is stupid, cruel and harmful.

< / rant >

[D-fendr_2]

Look, here's my point. This is an article about AA. AA is perfectly capable of conducting their own meetings with their own rules and traditions - traditions with a single purpose: to help other alcoholics recover from alcoholism.

These are people trying to learn to live sober and repair lives damaged greatly by alcoholism. Only one in ten make it with God's help. Most will end up dead or in institutions with many others harmed along the way.

Quiting smoking is the least of their worries.

Dictating that they must - at this critical moment - also go through nicotine withdrawals, that "they look and smell really disgusting smoking a cigarette," is stupid, cruel and harmful.

< / rant >

[VRWC_minion]

My ex is an alcoholic but I divorced her because she smoked :).

[VRWC_minion]

Your point is well taken except for the fact that all Of the AA meetings in my area meet in private places which have smoking bans. Members can be found outside smoking during breaks. In as much as AA is self governed, they don't seem to mind chosing nonsmoking facilities.

[CSM]

"What legal activity ? Once its banned its illegal."

Not true. It is still legal to use tobacco, the bans just dictate where it is legal.

[VRWC_minion]

Not true. It is still legal to use tobacco, the bans just dictate where it is legal.

Sex is legal, its only illegal to do in certain public places. Therefore we should allow sex anywhere ?

[D-fendr_2]

That's too bad. The groups should have the freedom to determine their own policies - which is why I disagree with the ruling in the article.

[VRWC_minion]

So if we have uniform laws that apply to all, we should provide exceptions for addicts because they cannot control themselves ?

[D-fendr_2]

Uniform does not necessary mean good.

Almost all AA meetings are not open to the public. They are closed meetings. I'm against government telling these groups they cannot allow smoking.

I'm also against government smoking bans, uniform or not, in privately owned public places; I think this should be left up to the owner who bears the consequences of whether he allows smoking on his private property.

So, I oppose this "state law that forbids smoking in most places open to the public" for forbidding a legal activity on private property.

The AA aspect is the one discussed in the article, but I think the law is uniformly bad.

[CSM]

"Sex is legal, its only illegal to do in certain public places. Therefore we should allow sex anywhere?"

We do allow sex on private property. If a property owner wants to allow people to come onto their property and engage in sexual activity, they are free to do so. If it is known by the potential patron that an activity is allowed to take place, the potential patron has every right to not accept the invitation onto that property.

Are you advocating government regulation of sex on private property?

[CSM]

"Sex is legal, its only illegal to do in certain public places. Therefore we should allow sex anywhere?"

We do allow sex on private property. If a property owner wants to allow people to come onto their property and engage in sexual activity, they are free to do so. If it is known by the potential patron that an activity is allowed to take place, the potential patron has every right to not accept the invitation onto that property.

Are you advocating government regulation of sex on private property?

[VRWC_minion]

I don't recall a restaurant or bar having no sex zones.

[VRWC_minion]

Almost all AA meetings are not open to the public. They are closed meetings. I'm against government telling these groups they cannot allow smoking.

From AA

Anyone May Attend A.A. Open Meetings Anyone may attend open meetings of A.A. These usually consist of talks by a leader and two or three speakers who share experience as it relates to their alcoholism and their recovery in A.A. Some meetings are held for the specific purpose of informing the nonalcoholic public about A.A. Doctors, members of the clergy, and public officials are invited. Closed discussion meetings are for alcoholics only.

The AA aspect is the one discussed in the article, but I think the law is uniformly bad

the fact they are addicts should not give them special benefits over non-addicts anymore than tobacco addicted smokers should not have more benefits than nonaddicted people.