Ford limits where workers can smoke -oh brother

STLToday.com ^ | 11/04/2003 | Todd C. Frankel

[SheLion]

The Ford auto plant in Hazelwood started this week to restrict where its 2,500 workers can smoke on the job, ending the decades-long practice of allowing workers to light up almost anywhere.

The change was prompted by pressure from state officials and anti-smoking groups, who claimed the Ford policy violated Missouri's Clean Indoor Air law.

[lewislynn]

a "non-smoking bar" isn't natural

It's better than natural, it's a godsend.

[lewislynn]

it would really be a shame if she broke a heel off her shoe and fell in front of a speeding metro bus now wouldn't it??

I understand the mindset of your whole life revolves around cigarettes but you should be careful what you wish for. Something like that could happen to you or a loved one instead.

[lewislynn]

get wonderful non-smokers in our threads and they, too, understand the threat of the government forcing private business owners to bend over to do the will of the anti's.

You're all frauds.

It isn't about "the government" or "property rights"...or "anti's" with you people it's all about your cigarettes. By your own admission you DON'T support business owners once there's a ban in place you instead punish them by cowering at home then (almost) brag about how many businesses closed in your area giving yourselves a false sense of power and winning.

I, like many former smokers aren't fooled by you. I (like you) would actually make plans based on when and where and how often I could have a cigarette...Cigarettes controlled my life just as they control yours.

Cigarettes, not the government, not the "anti's" control your lives.

Smoke free bars and restaurants in California were a genuine pleasure even BEFORE I quit.

Record Liquor License Applications in California

[lewislynn]

Smoking is a conservative thing because it's an individual thing, FRiend.

If you're the only "individual" in the vicinity of your smoke that's fine but it's no longer "an individual thing" when you aren't.

[Just another Joe]

So he drank the kool-aid.
Now that he's being paid from the MSA and working with the anti-smokers he's all for outlawing tobacco smoking. Right?
Amazing how a paycheck can change your perspective.

[Quix]

He was that way before he worked for the American Cancer Society.

I thought his links and sources rather solid data.

Obviously mileage and survivability may vary.

Yes, there are exceptions which evidently involve some incredible genetic toughness vis a vis the cancer etc. hazards. Those rare exceptions do not negate the solid science that the masses of individuals ought to pay attention to.

I prefer to avoid govgt regulation on a list of things. Given people doing unto others as they'd prefer done unto them, we wouldn't need government regulation. Given that we don't--as a nation, a society, a collection of individuals--tend to live that way--then regulations seem the only other viable option to protect individuals--from selfish others--and, to a degree--as in seat-belts--from themselves.

[metesky]

I blow smoke in your general direction, lame one.

[CSM]

Lewis, You are the fraud. The weakest of our society expect the government to do their bidding when they are not able to force their preferences upon the rest of society. You prefer infringements on the rights of the owner of property to ensure that your convenience is satisfied. I propose that we legislate government mandated foods for you and any children that you might someday have at your home. If you refuse to enforce this diet on your private property, then you too will lose your private property.

[novacation]

They're trying to keep from getting sued by their own employees.

[CSM]

"Yes, it is about property rights. The company, the union , and probably many to most of the workers are behind this."

This is where you show your ignorance of the typical Ford UAW environment. Most of the employees are PO'ed about this. The plant manager is PO'ed about this. The STL. government has dictated a policy that has hurt employee satisfaction.

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"Ford is not some mom and pop shop on the corner, with one person making decisions at every level. It is a corporation with hundreds of thousands of employees owned by its shareholders. And its true duty is to its shareholders."

In principal you are correct, however each assembly plant is its own fiefdome controlled by the plant managers. The true duty to the shareholders should be to maximize profits. Hold costs down and keep the workforce the most productive possible. This policy drives costs up and lowers productivity of the workforce.

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"By implememtning this policy, I think Ford is only doing what is best for its shareholders. One, by heading off any possible lawsuits related to this issue. Second, by creating a better , less hostile work environment for its employee`s."

Wrong, the work environment just became more hostile. The lawsuits will continue to flow into the court's against Ford. Ford is looked at as the "deep pocket" and they are defending millions in lawsuits on any given day.

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"Assembly line workers at Ford ( and other companies ) do not have some constitutional right to smoke while they work. The policy is set by their employer. And that is really what is happening here. You can say that outside pressure from other groups is responsible, and you would be right. But Ford also has the right to ignore these groups. But they have chosen to change the policy."

Wrong again. No worker has a constitutional right to smoke and no worker has a constitutional right to smoke free air. The publicized health problems are based on falsehoods. If it is about the smell, then what other smells will we restrict?

This policy was implemented to ensure compliance with government regulation. Government regulation has taken the right from the owner to set the policy as they see fit. The reason Ford didn't previously do this is due to the wants/desires of the assembly workers. It is quite comical that the groups putting pressure on them to change the policy will never even be allowed to enter the property. They expect the government to do their bidding and they never would have been exposed to the percieved problem.

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"Ford is even building rooms for smokers to take smoke breaks, something they have no obligation to do !!"

Yep, driving the costs up and productivity down. This is a slap in the face of the shareholders. Now, you end up with square footage that will never produce a product. This drives the overall OH costs up! I hope you are willing to pay more cash for a car, if not then you don't really support this type of policy.

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"We do have federal safety standards factories and companies must meet. I think working around a bunch of smokers ( which I have done ) creates a bad air quality situation. Something I think the company is responsible for addressing. Which they did."

In this particular plant, the air quality is very good. You could be standing next to a smoker and not even notice until you visually confirmed that they had a lit cigarette. The bottom line is that the general standards would allow for some exposure limit. That would be consistent with regulations regarding air contaminates. Instead, the antis want to have zero tolerance. I guess we better set up zero tolerance for all air contaminants in production facilities. Will you be able to tolerate this type of legislation? Will you be able to survivive without any available products?

[SheLion]

Huh????? I have no idea what you are talking about.

~scratching head.......

[SheLion]

I have the same bodily response to a co-worker that insists on standing near me and farting. I've complained to management, but since he is my boss they refuse to do anything.

Go to your local drug store and buy a supply of face masks. Wear them to work. Someone will get the message.

[Peace will be here soon]

"It's no big deal," said Ken Dearing, president of United Auto Workers Local 325, which represents union workers at the Hazelwood facility.

So you sound like your really screwed there, buddy.

---

This is where you show your ignorance of the typical Ford UAW environment ( Or maybe just of its stupid employees ). Most of the employees are PO'ed about this. The plant manager is PO'ed about this.

Spoken like a true pack-a-day man. NO, all of the smokers are PO`ed about this. And a few non-smokers may side with you.

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This policy drives costs up and lowers productivity of the workforce.


You have some proof to back that up?

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Wrong, the work environment just became more hostile.

Your opinion. Just like I stated mine.

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The publicized health problems are based on falsehoods.

Wow !!! You really need to read up on this a bit more !!! The amount of exposure is what is at issue. There is quite a bit of evidence that smoking or being around cronic smokers can and does cause health related problems.

Well, I guess I`ll stop right here. I can`t argue with someone who is blind to reality.

Enjoy your smokeless work environment. And be sure you check the air pressure in those tires on that Explorer.

[Normal4me]

"If you're the only "individual" in the vicinity of your smoke that's fine but it's no longer "an individual thing" when you aren't.

What happens if the vast majority ARE smokers? Should we curb our enjoyment to placate just a few? How about a sign on bars saying "Non Smokers Not Allowed"?

I have gotten used to it. I know no longer support two local bars that enforce the smoke ban but instead go to a smoker-friendly bar where their customer base has doubled. Much nicer people and a lot less whining from people like you.

[CSM]

"So you sound like your really screwed there, buddy."

Have you talked to the people in that plant? I have and they are not happy.

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"( Or maybe just of its stupid employees )"
Nice addition, calling these employees stupid. I wonder who gave you the judgemental stick to point at everyone.

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"Spoken like a true pack-a-day man. NO, all of the smokers are PO`ed about this. And a few non-smokers may side with you."

How do you know? Let's give you true examples. The non smoker is pissed because he now covers the smoker while the smoker takes a smoke break. The plant manager is upset because he has to now upgrade certain areas of the plant and he doesn't have the budget. This increased cost will hurt his performance.

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"You have some proof to back that up?"

Do you have the basic understanding that floor space should be maximized for production. Any use of floor space that is not production related drives your fixed costs up. That drives your total operating costs up. Get it?

---

"Your opinion. Just like I stated mine."

My opinion was based on direct experience at that specific facility. Yours was not. Which one has more validity?

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"Wow !!! You really need to read up on this a bit more !!! The amount of exposure is what is at issue. There is quite a bit of evidence that smoking or being around cronic smokers can and does cause health related problems."

No evidence can be provided that smoking is a cause of these health problems. There is a correlation, correlation does not equal causation. If that were the case then the Japanese would have much higher rates of heart and lung disease, they are the highest per capita smoking population and the lowest per capita heart and lung disease population. If smoking caused these problems, we wouldn't have continual rises in these diseases in the US while the smoking population has decreased. If ETS caused diseases, we wouldn't be seeing the increase in Asthma in children, while the rate of exposure has decreased exponentially over the years.

You continue to fall for the lies that when stated enough become "known as the truth". I will continue to look at the data and decide for myself.

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"Well, I guess I`ll stop right here. I can`t argue with someone who is blind to reality."

Right back at ya!

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"Enjoy your smokeless work environment. And be sure you check the air pressure in those tires on that Explorer."

Lame attempt at a personal attack, it was unnecessary and uncalled for. Grow up.

[JoeGar]

Special smoking rooms will be available.

This was the situation -- AT FIRST -- in the plant where I worked. A few months later, the rules changed and all smoking had to be done outdoors in designated "smoking areas". Another few months later, the 900-acre plant SITE became "smoke free". Smokers had to get into their car and drive off the property in order to smoke. (The good news: Had it not been for those policies, I probably would still be smoking.)

[SheLion]

This was the situation -- AT FIRST -- in the plant where I worked. A few months later, the rules changed and all smoking had to be done outdoors in designated "smoking areas". Another few months later, the 900-acre plant SITE became "smoke free". Smokers had to get into their car and drive off the property in order to smoke. (The good news: Had it not been for those policies, I probably would still be smoking.)

You have one sad story there.

900 acres? Something isn't right with this picture when most plant workers are like iron workers. I can't believe men would bow to this no-smoking rule imposed on them.

What about the Union? Is it in on it too? I think if enough men would have filed a grievance, something could have been done.

[Peace will be here soon]

No evidence can be provided that smoking is a cause of these health problems.

ROFLOL !!!
Yeah, I am going to take your word for it. I think "genetics" plays a key role in all this. Something you did not even mention , once. But in all those scientific studies you`ve read, I guess that word never registered.

I hope you come from a good gene pool. If not, you may be in for a big surprise.

[SheLion]

Smoking makes people smell disgusting and smells disgusting unless it is in very small quantities

Why do you have to be so nasty and post a "personal opinion?" When you know that we all do not feel that way, and most of us could care less what you think we smell like.

I'm not around you, ever, so how do you know I smell? Just because you know I smoke? Well, I beg to differ with you.