The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Battle of Camden (8/16/1780) - Sep. 23rd, 2003

PatriotSource,com ^

[SAMWolf]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

...................................................................................... ...........................................

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The Battle of Camden

Background: The British Campaign

British Lt. General Sir Henry Clinton had arrived in South Carolina in March and had undertaken a deliberate approach to the city of Charleston, South Carolina. He had been a part of the failed attack on Charleston in June 1776. On that occasion, the British had chosen a naval approach and attacked Fort Sullivan. Clinton had learned from that mistake and this time slowly isolated the city by land. On April 14, at the Battle of Monck's Corner, Lt. Colonel Banastre Tarleton cut off the last line of communication for Maj. General Benjamin Lincoln, Continental commander of Charleston.

On May 12, 1780, General Lincoln surrendered Charleston. Five thousand Continental soldiers became prisoners of war and enormous stores of munitions were lost. After the victory, General Clinton sailed north back to New York City leaving Lt. General Charles Cornwallis in command. Clinton's orders to Cornwallis were simple: he was to hold the port cities of Charleston and Savannah, Georgia firmly under British control. He could carry on operations in the backcountry any way he wished, as long as he maintained control of those two cities.


Plan of the Battle of Camden, 16 August 1780

On May 29, 1780, at Waxhaws, Lt. Colonel Tarleton caught up with a small Continental force retreating to North Carolina. Colonel Abraham Buford had turned back after learning that General Lincoln had surrendered. With that defeat, the lone remaining Continental force in the South was at Deep River, North Carolina. Maj. General Baron De Kalb and over a thousand Maryland and Delaware Continentals had left Morristown, New Jersey on April 16 with orders from General George Washington to reinforce General Lincoln. They had made it to North Carolina, when word of Charleston's surrender reached them. De Kalb had halted and made camp, while awaiting new orders from Washington.

Background: Horatio Gates - The Hero of Saratoga

Even before General Lincoln surrendered Charleston, the Continental Congress had chosen his replacement as Continental Commander of the Southern Department. General Washington had recommended Maj. General Nathanael Greene for the command, but Congress instead chose Maj. General Horatio Gates. Gates had been lobbying Southern congressmen through a stream of letters, he began lobbying southern congressmen. On May 7, the Continental Congress chose Gates to replace General Lincoln. On June 13, Gates received word of his appointment and left for the South immediately. On July 25, 1780, Gates arrived at the Deep River camp and took command from General de Kalb.


General Horatio Gates

General Gates immediately ordered that the army be prepared to march at a moment's notice, in spite of the deplorable condition of the force. On July 27, he set out with his army for Camden, South Carolina. Camden was central to controlling the back country of South Carolina because of its crossroads location near the Wateree River and the Catawba (Indian) Trail. Gates had chosen a direct march to Camden through difficult, swampy terrain over the advice of his officers who were familiar with the area. They had recommended a route that would have started out west, then turned south. It was more indirect, but was a route through Patriot-friendly regions, which meant food and supplies. Not only was the route that Gates had chosen more difficult, but it was through unfriendly territory.

Background: Marching Armies

Sometime after July 27, Francis Marion joined Maj. General Horatio Gates' army. Gates now met Marion and his band of militia for the first time and found their appearance so shabby that it was a distraction to the regulars. He took little time in detaching Marion with orders to gather intelligence on the movements of the British. During the march, Gates sent Lt. Colonel William Washington and his cavalry away, because he did not think cavalry would be of use in the South.


Francis Marion

General Gates also weakened his force during this time by sending 400 men, including 100 Maryland regulars to assist Thomas Sumter, who had requested reinforcements to conduct his own raids. It appears that Gates' original strategy was to use Marion and Sumter to cut off Camden's supply lines from the south. This action would leave Camden vulnerable and force the British to evacuate their garrison without a fight.


Colonel Lord Rawdon

General Gates had counted on Lt. General Charles Earl Cornwallis remaining in Charleston. Camden was held by a garrison of about 700 men under Lt. Colonel Lord Rawdon. However, on August 9, General Cornwallis received word from Lord Rawdon of General Gates' approach and he immediately set out for Camden, arriving on August 13. Meanwhile, Gates had found the going difficult and anticipated supplies had not turned up along the route. The men had ended up eating green apples and peaches.


Lt. General Charles Earl Cornwallis

On August 15, General Gates issued orders for a night approach to Camden. The evening's meal had been topped off with a dessert of molasses that had dire effects on the digestion of the men. At the same time, General Cornwallis had ordered a night march in preparation for an early morning attack on Gates at Rugeley's Mill. As Gates' Continental force marched south on the evening of the 15th, men often broke ranks as the molasses took its stomach churning effect.

At about 2:00 A.M. on August 16, 1780, General Gates' Continental force General Cornwallis' British force literally ran into each other on the Waxhaws road about ten miles from Camden. The forward cavalry screens of Continental Colonel Charles Armand and Lt. Colonel Tarleton clashed and skirmished in the dark. The cavalry was pushed back into the marching columns causing confusion until 100 Virginia state troops maintained formation and steadied the Continentals.

[SAMWolf]

The Battle: Arraying the Troops

Both Maj. General Horatio Gates and Lt. General Charles Cornwallis, having been surprised by the encounter, withdrew to plan and wait for dawn. Following the early morning skirmish, the element of surprise was now gone. It was learned from prisoners taken that the British force was 3,000 strong and commanded by General Cornwallis himself. General Gates immediately called a council of war with his officers to discuss what action to take. Although Maj. General Baron de Kalb had privately advised retreat, he said nothing at the council of war.

After a few moments of silence, militia Brig. General Edward Stevens declared that it was too late to do anything but fight. General Gates wanted to prove his worth as a skilled commander, so when no other advice was offered, he insisted on facing the British on open ground. Although both Gates and the British estimated the American forces to be nearly 7,000 men, the actual number was only about 3,000, nearly 2,000 of whom were inexperienced militia.

Before dawn broke, General Gates formed his men. The core of his force, 900 Maryland and Delaware regulars under General de Kalb, were arrayed to the right of the Waxhaws road. To the left the road, were placed 1,800 North Carolina militia. On their left were 700 Virginia militia. Colonel Charles Armand's cavalry was held in reserve behind the Virginians. Gates himself was stationed with the reserves some 200 yards behind the battleline.

Lt. Colonel Tarleton

When the British appeared on the field, Lord Rawdon commanded his own Volunteers of Ireland, as well as Lt. Colonel Banastre Tarleton's British Legion cavalry on the British left wing opposite of General de Kalb. Following European military custom, both General Gates and General Cornwallis had placed their most experienced troops on the right wing. As a result, Lt. Colonel James Webster commanded the most seasoned British regiments on the right wing opposite Gates' inexperienced militia. In hindsight it looks to be a recipe for disaster for Gates.

The Battle: Fighting Commences

The British opened the battle by attacking with their right wing on the American left wing at the heart of the militia. Brig. General Edward Stevens ordered his men to fix bayonets, which as militia they had never done before. In the face of an aggressive bayonet charge from the British, first the Virginians and then the North Carolina militia fled before the British regulars could even reach them. Many dropped their muskets without having fired a shot.

While the rout was taking place on the American left wing, the right wing under Maj. General Baron de Kalb was attacking after receiving the order from Maj. General Horatio Gates. They had no idea how bad things were on the left wing, because the dawn's dead calm had left the smoke from gunfire lingering in a haze on the field. The Maryland and Delaware Continental regulars twice repulsed Lord Rawdon's Volunteers of Ireland and then launched a counterattack.

The Continental counterattack was successful with prisoners taken and the Volunteers' line nearly broken. Lt. General Charles Cornwallis saw the action, rode up and rallied his men. Meanwhile, Lt. Colonel James Webster controlled his men on the British right wing. Instead of pursuing the fleeing militia, he wheeled to the left and continued his charge as a flanking movement against General de Kalb.

Maj. General Baron De Kalb

Only one militia regiment held its ground. It was a North Carolina regiment that had been stationed the closest to the Delware Continental regulars. Their steadfastest was rewarded by being the first to be hit by Lt. Colonel Webster's flank attack. The militia unit fought well and was joined by Maryland regulars that had been called up from reserve by General de Kalb. The Maryland regulars fought off Webster's attack, but now only about 800 Continentals were facing at least 2,000 British regulars.

The small force continued to fight bravely. The final blow came when General Cornwallis ordered Lt. Colonel Banastre Tarleton and his British Legion to attack the American rear. Under the cavalry charge the ranks finally broke. Some Continentals managed to escape through a nearby swamp. General de Kalb himself had taken eleven wounds before falling. The field was taken after an hour. Tarleton pursued the fleeing Americans for over twenty miles before finally turning back.

[SAMWolf]

Aftermath

What become of Maj. General Horatio Gates himself? After the militia broke and fled, Gates soon followed. Some reported that he did attempt to rally the retreating militia, but to no avail. What can be said is that Gates was in Charlotte, North Carolina, sixty miles away by the evening of August 16 only hours after the battle. He was in Hillsborough, North Carolina, 180 miles away, by August 19.


Battle of Camden, Death of De Kalb." August 1780. Copy of engraving after Alonzo Chappel.

General Gates' actions were almost immediately questioned. After Maj. General Nathanael Greene replaced him in December, he returned home to Virginia to await a inquiry into his conduct at Camden. He would not hold another command for the rest of the war. He did return to active duty before the end to official hostilities, serving in General Washington's command staff, as he had at the start of the war.

It was estimated that of the 3,000 men that made up the American force, 2,000 fled without firing a shot. Somewhere around 800 men were captured or killed and the army's munitions were also taken, while the British only sustained about 350 casualties. This loss left Patriot morale in the South at a low and the region firmly under British control until General Geene built the Continental forces back up in early 1781. Even with the care of Lt. General Charles Cornwallis' personal physician, Maj. General Baron de Kalb died at Camden three days after the battle.



The battle of Camden, South Carolina was a stunning defeat for the American Army. However the battle of Camden did effectively remove the politically appointed General Hortio Gates, and place the new General Nathaniel Greene, a man Washington had hoped would replace him should anything befall the Commander in Chief.

Horatio Gates, had assumed command of the Army in the South, and things were going poorly. Gates a political appointee had little appreciation for the depravity and poor condition of the troops in the south. In addition, Gates also had a false sense of confidence when meeting the enemy.


Memorial Erected in 1909 by the Hobkirk Hill Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution Marking the Spot Where Baron Johann DeKalb Fell Mortally Wounded in the Battle of Camden.

Additional Sources:

teachpol.tcnj.edu
www.afn.org
jrshelby.com
www.dnr.state.sc.us
www.pro.gov.uk
www.sar.org
digital.library.upenn.edu
freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~johnrobertson
www.boxoff.com
xenophongroup.com

[SAMWolf]

Gates had been a hero at Saratoga, but his overall ability as a leader was made manifest at Camden. Even though he had numerical superiority, Gates failed to heed the advice of his fellow generals and, even worse, fled the field in the heat of the battle. So complete was the rout and so craven was Gates that he mounted his horse and never stopped until he reached Charlotte, a distance of some sixty miles. Within three days he was all the way to Hillsborough, North Carolina. More than a thousand Americans died at Camden, as compared with a mere sixty-eight British.

Morale was so low in the aftermath of this disaster that, had it not been for the success at Musgrove Mill, the British regulars under Lord Cornwallis might well have wrapped up the war in a few short weeks. In the aftermath of Camden, only Col. Isaac Shelby and a thin force of raw militiamen stood in the way of the British establishing a solid foothold in the upcountry. Although badly outnumbered, Shelby used patience, the expert marksmanship of his backwoods militiamen, and a favorable position to good advantage. That hot afternoon at Musgrove Mill saw sixty-three Tories killed, with another ninety wounded and seventy captured. The patriots’ losses were only four dead and eight wounded. As news of the triumph spread, flagging spirits soared, and Musgrove Mill served as a harbinger of the turn of the tide at King’s Mountain two months later. Patriots now had a tangible indication that ultimate victory over the British was possible.

[SAMWolf]

[snippy_about_it]

.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

.......Good Tuesday Morning Everyone!


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.

[E.G.C.]

Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Foxhole. How's it going?

[The Mayor]

mmmmm donuts!

[snippy_about_it]

Good morning EGC. Busy morning but dry and cool!

[snippy_about_it]

Good morning Mayor. mmm donuts.

SAM, I'll save a chocolate one for you before everyone else arrives. ;)

[manna]

Present!

[Valin]

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on September 23:
484 -BC Euripides Greek playwright (Trojan Women)
63 -BC (BC) Octavian (Augustus Caesar), first Roman emperor (27 BC-14 AD)
1713 Ferdinand VI king of Spain (1746-59)
1745 John Sevier Tennessee, indian fighter (Gov/Rep-Tn)
1800 William H McGuffey educator (McGuffey Readers)
1805 Matthew Adams Stickney Rowley Mass, numismatist
1838 Victoria Chaflin Woodhull Ohio, feminist/reformer/free love/1st female presidential candidate
1852 William Stewart Halsted established 1st US surgical school
1869 Edgar Lee Masters poet/novelist (Spoon River Anthology)
1869 Mary Church Terrell famous African
1870 John Lomax Miss, folk song collector/ethnomusicologist
1880 John Boyd Orr nutritionist, UN's FAO (Nobel 1949)
1889 Walter Lippmann NYC, journalist/political writer (Men of Destany)
1900 Louise Nevelson US, sculptor (Sky Cathedral)
1910 Elliot Roosevelt son of FDR
1910 Soulima Stravinsky Lausanne Switz, Russian pianist (Igor's son)
1917 Imry Nemeth Hungary, hammer thrower (Olympic-gold-1948)
1920 Mickey Rooney Bkln NY, actor (Bill, Andy Hardy, Sugar Babies)
1926 John Coltrane saxophonist (Round Midnight)
1930 Ray Charles Albany Ga, singer/pianist (Georgia)
1936 Sylvain Saudan skiier (60ø descent)
1938 Romy Schneider Vienna Austria, actress (Bloodline, Death Watch)
1943 Julio Iglesias singer (Of All the Girls I Loved Before)
1944 Loren J Shriver Iowa, Col USAF/astronaut (STS 51-C, STS-31, sk:46)
1945 Paul Petersen Glendale Calif, actor (Jeff Stone-Donna Reed Show)
1947 Mary Kay Place Tulsa Okla, actress/country singer (Mary Hartman!)
1949 Bruce Springsteen [Boss], Asbury NJ, rock musician (Born in the USA)
1955 Patti Weaver WV, actress (Days of our Life, Gina-Young & Restless)
1956 Maren Jensen Arcadia Calif, actress (Athena-Battlestar Galactica)
1957 Sylvie Garant Montmagny Quebec, playmate (Nov, 1979)
1961 Elizabeth Pe¤a Havana Cuba, actress (La Bamba, Jacob's Ladder)
1967 Harry Connick Jr singer (We Are in Love)

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Deaths which occurred on September 23:
1877 Urbain JJ Leverrier codiscoverer of Neptune, dies
1939 Sigmund Freud created psychoanalysis, dies at 83
1956 Earl Godwin newscaster (Meet the Veep), dies at 75
1972 Carl Frank actor (Uncle Gunnar-Mama), dies at 63
1974 Cliff Arquette comedian "Charlie Weaver", dies at 68
1981 Chief Dan George, actor (Harry & Tonto, Little Big Man), dies at 82
1982 Jimmy Wakely country western singer, dies of heart failure at 68
1985 Mickey Simpson actor, dies of a heart attack at 72
1987 Bob Fosse, choreographer (All the Jazz), dies at 62

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Reported: MISSING in ACTION
1968 CALLAHAN DAVID F. JR. WINDSOR VT.
1968 OSBORNE DALE H. SALT LAKE CITY UT.
[02/12/73 RELEASED BY DRV INJURED, ALIVE AND WELL 98]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.

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On this day...
0951 Otto I the Great becomes king of Italy
1553 The Sadians defeat the last of their enemies and establish themselves as rulers of Morocco.
1642 Harvard College in Cambridge, Mass, 1st commencement
1667 Slaves in Virginia are banned from obtaining their freedom by converting to Christianity.
1719 Liechtenstein declares independence from German empire
1779 John Paul Jones' "Bon Homme Richard" defeats 'HMS Serepis'
1780 British MAJ John Andre was apprehended as a Spy, near Tarrytown, NY
1803 Battle of Assaye-British-Indian forces beat Maratha Army
1805 Lieutenant Zebulon Pike pays $2,000 to buy from the Sioux a 9-square-mile tract at the mouth of the Minnesota River that will be used to establish a military post, Fort Snelling.
1806 Lewis & Clark return to St Louis from the Pacific Northwest
1845 1st baseball team, NY Knickerbockers organize, adopt rule code
1846 Johann Gottfried Galle & Heinrich d'Arrest find Neptune
1862 Lincoln's Emancipation is published in Northern Newspapers
1863 Confederate siege of Chattanooga begins
1868 Grito de Lares proclaims Puerto Rico's independence (crushed by Spain)
1873 Tom Allen beats Mike McCale for Heavyweight Boxing title
1879 Baldwin steam motors tram 1st tried in Sydney Australia
1890 Ed Cartwright bats in 7 RBIs in 1 inning
1897 1st frontier days rodeo celebration (Cheyene Wyoming)
1908 Giant Fred (Bonehead) Merkle fails to touch 2nd, causes 3rd out in 9th disallows winning run (game ends tied, Cubs win replay & pennant)
1908 University of Alberta opens
1912 1st Mack Sennett "Keystone Comedy" movie released
1926 Gene Tunney defeats Jack Dempsey for world heavyweight boxing title
1932 Kingdom of Hejaz & Nejd renamed Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
1933 Yanks commit 7 errors in 1 game but beat Boston 16-12
1938 British premier Neville Chamberlain flies to Munich
1938 Time capsule, to be opened in 6939, buried at World's Fair in NYC (capsule contained a woman's hat, man's pipe & 1,100' of microfilm)
1939 Cookie Lavagetto goes 6 for 6-Dodgers get 27 hits & beat Phillies 22-4
1949 Truman announces evidence of USSR's 1st nuclear device detonation
1950 Phila A's Joe Astroth is 4th to get 6 RBIs in an inning (6th)
1952 1st closed circuit pay-TV telecast of a sports event
1952 Richard Nixon makes his "Checker's" speech
1952 Rocky Marciano KOs heavyweight champ Jersey Joe Walcott in 13 for heavyweight boxing title
1957 White mob forces 9 black students who had entered a Little Rock high school in Arkansas to withdraw
1961 1st movie to become a TV series-How to Marry a Millionaire
1962 ABC's 1st color TV series-The Jetsons
1962 LA Dodger Maury Wills steals record setting #97 on his way to 104
1962 NY's Philharmonic Hall (since renamed Avery Fisher Hall) opens as 1st unit of the Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts
1967 Radio Malta stops testing
1969 Northern Star starts rumor that Paul McCartney is dead
1973 Former Argentine President Juan Peron returns to power
1973 Largest known prime, 2 ^ 132,049-1, is discovered
1976 Ford-Carter TV debate
1976 Soyuz 22 returns to Earth
1977 3rd test of Space Shuttle Enterprise
1977 Cheryl Ladd replaces Farrah Fawcett on Charlie's Angels
1978 100,000 cheering Egyptians welcome Sadat home from Camp David summit
1979 Jane Fonda & 200,000 attend anti-nuke rally in Battery Park, NYC
1979 Lou Brock steals record 935th base
1980 Big Thunder Mountain Railroad opens
1983 Columbia moves to Vandenberg AFB for mating in preparation of STS-9
1983 Phillies Steve Carlton wins his 300th game (beating St Louis Cards)
1984 SF 49er Joe Montana misses his 1st start in 49 games
1984 Sparky Anderson is 1st manager to win 100 games in both leagues
1986 Houston Astro Jim Deshales sets record of striking out 1st 8 men starting a ball game, beating the LA Dodgers 4-0
1987 The British government lost its appeal to prevent the Australian publication of "Spycatcher:
1988 Jose Canseco becomes baseball's 1st to steal 40 bases & hit 40 HRs
1990 PBS begins an 11 hour miniseries on The Civil War
1990 Saddam says he will destroy Israel
1991 NY Islanders Mike Bossy & Denis Potvin inducted into NHL Hall of Fame

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Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Puerto Rico : Grito de Lares Day (1868)
Saudi Arabia : Unification Day (1932)
Wyoming : Frontier Day
US : Good Neighbor Day (4th Sunday in September)(Sunday)
US : Press Sunday (Sunday)
US : American Indian Day (4th Friday in September) (1916) (Friday)
Japan : Autumnal Equinox Day
National Multiple Wives Day
National Laundry Workers Week (Day 3)
Bourbon Month
National Bed Check Month

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Religious Observances
RC : Commemoration of St Linus, 2nd pope (c 67-c 76), martyr

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Religious History
1122 The Concordat of Worms was reached between Pope Callistus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V. It settled the Investiture Controversy over who had the right -- bishop or emperor -- to choose replacement clergy for vacant positions.
1595 Spain launched an intensive missionary campaign in the American Southeast. During the next two years, about 1,500 American Indians were converted to the Catholic faith.
1667 In Williamsburg, Virginia, a law was passed, barring slaves from obtaining their freedom by converting to Christianity.
1888 Birth of Gerhard Kittel, German Lutheran Bible scholar. He was first editor of a 10-volume Greek lexicon which took 43 years to complete (1933-76). In its English edition (1964-76), the work is entitled, "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament" -- or "TDNT" for short.
1960 While mourning the recent death of his wife Joy Davidman, English apologist C.S. Lewis wrote in a letter: 'My great recent discovery is that when I mourn Joy least I feel nearest to her. Passionate sorrow cuts us off from the dead.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.

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Thought for the day :
Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat.

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You might be a dog person if...
You shovel a zig-zag path in the back yard snow so your dog can reach all her favorite spots.

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Murphys Law of the day...(Featherkile's Rule)
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.

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It's a little known fact that...
The 1st kiss in a movie was between May Irwin and John Rice in "The Widow Jones," in 1896.

[bedolido]

My daughter sent me this. please consider passing it along to the FReeper Foxhole team (this is true):

Arlington and the Hurricane.

I just returned form a Thursday/Friday business trip to Washington, DC.

We got there just in time to get to our hotel and hunker down for the night on emergency generator. Our briefing was canceled on Friday morning so we were lucky and caught our early evening scheduled flight out of BWI.

Of course the Tombs of the Unknown soldiers are at Arlington. They are guarded by Infantrymen of the 3rd Infantry 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. When the hurricane came in the guards were told to seek shelter for the first time in history. The Sergeant of the guard relieved his men and stood the post in their place. He said that was his duty. The Tombs have still never been left unguarded and therefore all our men who rest in Arlington have never been left.....

[bedolido]

she also sent me this about airplane stories and Blackbird (SR-71):

In his book, Sled Driver, SR-71 Blackbird pilot Brian Shul writes: "I'll always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred one day as Walt (my backseater) and I were screaming across Southern California 13 miles high. We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraft as we entered Los Angeles airspace. Though they didn't really control us, they did monitor our movement across their scope. I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its ground speed."

"90 knots" Center replied.

"Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same."

"120 knots," Center answered.

"We weren't the only ones proud of our ground speed that day as almost instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, 'Ah, Center, Dusty 52 requests ground speed readout.'

"There was a slight pause, then the response, 525 knots on the ground, Dusty".

"Another silent pause. As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation this was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission coming from my backseater. It was at that precise moment I realized Walt and I had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison."

"Center, Aspen 20, you got a ground speed readout for us?" There was a longer than normal pause.... "Aspen, I show 1,742 knots"

"No further inquiries were heard on that frequency"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In another famous SR-71 story, Los Angeles Center reported receiving a request for clearance to FL 60 (60,000ft). The incredulous controller, with some disdain in his voice, asked, "How do you plan to get up to 60,000 feet? The pilot (obviously a sled driver), responded, "We don't plan to go up to it, we plan to go down to it." He was cleared...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There's a story about the military pilot calling for a priority landing, because his single engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked". Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two, behind a B-52 that had one engine shut down. "Ah", the fighter pilot remarked, "The dreaded Seven Engine approach".

[SAMWolf]

Good Morning Snippy.

[snippy_about_it]

What can be said is that Gates was in Charlotte, North Carolina, sixty miles away by the evening of August 16 only hours after the battle..

Shame on Gates. I'm sure word of his fleeing made it to some of the fighting men, how dare he. Looks like he got away with his cowardice to some extent.

God Bless DeKalb for standing firm in this battle and giving all.

Great read SAM, thanks.

[SAMWolf]

Good Morning E.G.C. Fall is here, cool, clear and crisp mornings.

[SAMWolf]

Thanks Mayor.

[snippy_about_it]

Good morning manna.

[SAMWolf]

Good morning manna.

[snippy_about_it]

You might be a dog person if... You shovel a zig-zag path in the back yard snow so your dog can reach all her favorite spots.

LOL!

Around here we have no choice. The snow gets so deep sometimes you have to shovel away some area!! What is even worse is when the snow gets covered by ice.

Good morning and thank you Valin.