Phil Leigh (1947 - ) was born in Little Rock, Arkansas and has mostly worked as a computer industry stock analyst. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from Florida Institute of Techno
I prefer real historians Larry Schweikart in particular
Very interesting idea that the average Joe was much more attached to his state than the country at the time.
That still goes on today to some extent and we have planes to take us to other states in no time and the internet and cell phones to contact people all over the US very easily.
And news updating us on what’s going on in other states.
And it is true that the south didn’t plan to take over the north. Which kind of kills the traitor part.
Staten Island wanted desperately to secede from the four other boroughs. It wouldn’t come to that because we don’t have the numbers, but i think some would have fought to get away from the other disgusting boroughs (not all parts)
Imagine how willing to fight one must be if their state’s freedom is threatened.
Also, the north should have taken a good long look at how it treated immigrants off the boat.
The Irish ghettos were disgusting and they were treated like garbage.
They weren’t slaves but they lived in terrible squalor.
The north wasn’t Too Upset about that.
And you could buy your way out of the draft for 300 bucks.
So the north didn’t have the high ground.
The south just didn’t have enough men or artillery as industrial production was much more active in the north.
Or the south would have won.
By the way, i LOVE Bette Davis but the movie Jezebel was a leftist, biased “woke” before it’s time, movie.
With Henry Fonda playing the northern hero.
Figures.
You can be loyal to a state but traitor to your country.
The refusal to accept the authority of the United States is an act of rebellion, but not treason, which is levying war against the US. But it is disingenuous to say that war was forced on the South by the North. Lincoln pursued peaceful reconciliation until the Confederate Army attacked the federal garrison at Fort Sumpter, compelling its surrender, which fits the definition of levying war.
There are some very limited good things to be said about the Confederacy. But the bulk of Confederate apologia is pure crap.
The real world of today is out there and things are happening in it.
States are sovereign and have the right to unilaterally secede. That is precisely what each of the 13 colonies did just 8 years before the constitution was ratified. Nowhere in the constitution do the states delegate to the federal government the right to prevent secession by any of the sovereign states. Under the 10th amendment, this is a power reserved by the states.
That is how everybody understood the constitution at the time that it was ratified. Just to emphasize the point, three states - including the two biggest ones which were leaders of their respective sections of the country, New York and Virginia - expressly reserved the right to unilateral secession at the time that they ratified the constitution. Quite simply, secession is not treason. Treason is providing aid and comfort to the enemy in time of declared war.
Here we go again. Another 400+ thread with half pro-Confederacy and half anti-Confederacy. Nobody’s mind is changed. History is not altered. It happened; move on and make sure it never happens again.
However, I have no faith in human nature that we will avoid a repeat.
Furthermore, in answer to the accusation that Southern soldiers were just dupes and suckers to the tiny minority who owned slaves and that they didn’t really know what they were fighting for, read this:
“Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late… It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision… It is said slavery is all we are fighting for, and if we give it up we give up all. Even if this were true, which we deny, slavery is not all our enemies are fighting for. It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a more centralized form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties.” Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA, January 1864
Or this:
In his book What They Fought For, 1861-1865, historian James McPherson reported on his reading of more than 25,000 letters and more than 100 diaries of soldiers who fought on both sides of the War for Southern Independence and concluded that Confederate soldiers “fought for liberty and independence from what they regarded as a tyrannical government.” The letters and diaries of many Confederate soldiers “bristled with the rhetoric of liberty and self government,” writes McPherson, and spoke of a fear of being “subjugated” and “enslaved” by a tyrannical federal government.
Sound familiar? You could log on to this site any day and read similar sentiments expressed by most here. They knew exactly what they were fighting for, and it wasn’t slavery.
“If you bring these [Confederate] leaders to trial it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion. Lincoln wanted Davis to escape, and he was right. His capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one.” Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, July 1867 (Foote, The Civil War, Vol. 3, p. 765)
“If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution, secession is not a rebellion. His [Jefferson Davis] capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one. We cannot convict him of treason” Chief Justice Salmon P Chase [as quoted by Herman S. Frey, in Jefferson Davis, Frey Enterprises, 1977, pp. 69-72]
If you are a citizen of a nation, and then fight to throw out that nation in order to create a new one—-that pretty much tells me they are a traitor to the first country, and a patriot to the second.
But when you take a shot at the king...you better kill them. They failed.
That said, the day to day soldier and 99% of the rebels were pardoned. And it was proper to do so.
Debating this 155 years later is kind of an academic exercise.
Texan for #TEXIT
If you are a Texan, your support should be behind this initiative before it is too late.
Secede and never look back
Here we go again, stil fighting a war that ended 155 years ago. There are going to be another 100-200 posts arguing one side or the other. And nobody’s mind will be changed!
We need to focus on what we will do under the antipresident Biden’s regime. The entire country will be under attack, our freedoms in jeopardy. What can be done? Take action. Should we take actions to preserve our freedoms? We should, otherwise we will lose those freedoms.
President Trump is honestly elected; Biden is not. Is a government in exile the way to go?
Does anyone know where I can find the text of those five amendments?