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The FReeper Foxhole Presents the Saturday Symposium - The Z Plan - July 2nd, 2005
see educational sources

Posted on 07/02/2005 9:00:46 AM PDT by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

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are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

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The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

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The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

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If the Z plan was implemented could Germany have defeated the British Navy and Isolated England?




The Z-Plan was Germanys fleet building program started shortly before World War 2.

In the mid 1930s a major discussion about a new fleet program started in Germany. There were two major opinions, what kind of program should have been chosen. One plan was focused on a large submarine fleet and a relatively small surface fleet for coast protection, this plan was preferred by the U-Boat fraction in the Kriegsmarine command. The other alternative was a mixed fleet of various surface ships and a much smaller U-Boat fleet, quite similar to the Imperial Navy in World War I or the British Royal Navy. In the end, this plan was chosen as the new fleet building program, after several modifications it was called the "Z-Plan".

According to this plan, the German Kriegsmarine should have grown to about 800 units, consisting of 13 battleships and battlecruisers, 4 aircraft carriers, 15 Panzerschiffe, 23 cruisers and 22 so called "Spähkreuzer" which were basically large destroyers. In addition to this many smaller vessels should have been build.

Those ships should have been build between 1939 and 1946, in this time, the personal of the Kriegsmarine should have been enlarged to 201.000 men and over 33 billion Reichsmark should have spend for building the new units.

This project never got reality. Its very questionable that the German industry would have had the resources for such a construction program and that the other European Nations would stood still and not react to this program. The realization of the Z-Plan started on January 29th, 1939. Two H-Class battleships were laid down, three months later Germany quit the the fleet treaty with England and the dream "No more war against Britain" was gone.

But only four months later Germany attacked Poland and work on all Z-Plan projects was stopped. During the next months, all incomplete ships of the Z-plan were scrapped and the material was used to build additional submarines.

Kriegsmarine Ships

When talking about the German Kriegsmarine in World War II, the German U-Boats are often the first thing that comes into mind. At the outbreak of the war of the war, Germany had 57 U-Boats, most of them not capable of operations in the Atlantic. It was planned to build about 250 in the Naval construction program called Z-Plan, but since this plan was never realized, Germany entered the war with a much less number of submarines than the allied nations. In following 6 years, over 1100 boats were built, and was often seen as the biggest threat to Great Britain in the whole war.

Those submarines operated in all oceans of the world - from the North Sea, to the Atlantic, the American Coast (Operation Donnerschlag), the Arctic and even the Indian Ocean and the Pacific - until mid 1943 they were superior to their allied hunters. But with the introduction of radar, Huff Duff, and a continuous air cover for allied convoys, the former hunter got the hunted, even the introduction of new, revolutionary Submarines like the Type XXI could not change this.

Besides their success in the early years of the war, the U-Boats paid a terrible price for it. About 80% of all U-Boats were destroyed, 28.000 of the 40.000 U-boat personal were killed during the war, 8.000 were captured.

Thanks to PzLdr for the idea for today's topic.

sym·po·sium : a social gathering at which there is free interchange of ideas

So now let's get on with the discussion. Pull up a chair or grab a spot on the floor around the virtual Foxhole Cabin and let's chat.



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TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: freeperfoxhole; history; samsdayoff; saturdaysymposium; veterans; wwii; zplan
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Good morning everyone. Enjoy your Saturday and a break from the Foxhole into the cabin. Come nightfall please feel free to join us around the campfire.






Educational Sources: www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/

1 posted on 07/02/2005 9:00:46 AM PDT by snippy_about_it
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To: Bigturbowski; ruoflaw; Bombardier; Steelerfan; SafeReturn; Brad's Gramma; AZamericonnie; SZonian; ..



"FALL IN" to the FReeper Foxhole!



Good Saturday Morning Everyone.


If you want to be added to our ping list, let us know.


2 posted on 07/02/2005 9:03:34 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All



Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization.





Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.

Thanks to quietolong for providing this link.

UPDATED THROUGH APRIL 2004




The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul

Click on Hagar for
"The FReeper Foxhole Compiled List of Daily Threads"

3 posted on 07/02/2005 9:04:30 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Professional Engineer; alfa6; msdrby; Peanut Gallery; PhilDragoo; ...

Good morning everyone.

4 posted on 07/02/2005 9:07:57 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (WOO HOO!)
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To: snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Samwise; Peanut Gallery; Wneighbor
Good morning ladies. Flag-o-never fear, the Coast Gaurd is here-o-Gram.


5 posted on 07/02/2005 9:08:16 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Celebrate your Independence, buy cheap foriegn made crap at Deep, Deep discounts!)
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To: bentfeather

Hi miss Feather


6 posted on 07/02/2005 9:14:24 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Celebrate your Independence, buy cheap foriegn made crap at Deep, Deep discounts!)
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To: Professional Engineer

Morning PE!

Got plans for the weekend??

Nothing going on here yet. Lovely day, weather has cooled down a lot, very pleasant.


7 posted on 07/02/2005 9:19:46 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (WOO HOO!)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning Snippy.


8 posted on 07/02/2005 9:20:13 AM PDT by Aeronaut (2 Chronicles 7:14.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Interesting question, and one that I have not thought much about.

I don't think that Hitler could have delayed the war until 1945-46. Neither Japan nor Italy would have been willing to wait that long, and the German volk would likely have been getting restive by then. On the east, as well, Stalin would have likely moved on Poland before then, forcing his hand in the east. There was also a risk that France would have gotten around to plugging the gap between the Maginot Line and the coast.

Assuming that both the other Axis powers and the Allies would have waited for him to do this the question of whether this would have been a suitable fleet for the Germans arises, and whether they would have been more successful than the Italians. Certainly the Japanese were successful against both the British and the Americans in surface actions involving matched ships, so the possibility exists that the Germans could have dealt with the British in a fleet action.

However, given the large number of variables introduced by a delayed start to World War II, this is much more speculative than other discussion questions that we might have. I'll be interested in reading the comments of the experts.
9 posted on 07/02/2005 9:30:20 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: snippy_about_it

((HUGS))Good morning, snippy and everyone at the Freeper foxhole.


10 posted on 07/02/2005 9:31:33 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: PAR35; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; All

Between Naps Bump for the Saturday Symposium Edition of the Freeper Foxhole.

As mentioned in the article the German Kriegesmarine had only 57 submarines at the start of hostilities on September 1, 1939. Of those IIRC only about 20 were fir for sea duty, the rest being either training or coastal defense boats. You can figure in inservice rate of roughly 50% on the ocean going U-boats. Bear in mind that with this meager number of U-boats the NAZIs almost took England down.

PAR35 I have to agree with your comnment that the Germans would not have been able to wait another 5 to 6 years to start the war. Not only would the Volk have gotten restless but by that time the British and French would have been re-armed making any fight that much harder.

However had the NAZIs waited just 1 more year and gotten things going in the spring of 1940 versus fall of 1939 I think the results would have been terribly differnt.

Had the NAZIs just another 20 or so U-boats they would have been able to put a signifigant blockade on the British Isles as well as being able to conduct operations away from England in support of the blockade.

My .02 for what it is worth.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}




11 posted on 07/02/2005 9:48:40 AM PDT by alfa6 (Rest, ve don't need no stinkin Rest)
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To: snippy_about_it

Good afternoon. I had to work today.


12 posted on 07/02/2005 12:35:55 PM PDT by GailA (Glory be to GOD and his only son Jesus.)
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To: snippy_about_it

With 300 U-boats in 1939-1940 England would have been isolated and starved out. 300 boats would have had approx 100 on station, 100 in transit and 100 in port for resupply and refitting at any one time. he results would have been devestaing to England. Just the small number of boats available came close to suceeding.

As for the Z-Plan, even if Germany was able to delay the start of the war and build the planned ships, the Allies, especially Britain would not have been sitting idly by, they'd also have had new ships on-line. If completed, IMHO, even the Z-Plan ships wouldn't have been able to defeat the British Navy, they would have caused a lot more problems but the Kriegsmarine would have pretty much pursue the same strategy it did for most of the war, "keeping a fleet in being" as a threat.

The best bet for Germany was the U-Boats, luckily Hitler and the high Command didn't see it. Hitler didn't really understand the concept of "Naval Power" and it's relationship to land battles.

IMHO, Russia and Germany would have been at war before 1944-45, even if England and france were somehow kept at bay.


13 posted on 07/02/2005 2:30:41 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Oops! Re Post 13, Someone left the machine signed on. ;-)


14 posted on 07/02/2005 2:33:01 PM PDT by SAMWolf (How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink?)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Iris7; Valin
Afternoon Folks~

Will take a front seat for today's symposium and listen to the scholars discuss . . . it's a little out of my league.

15 posted on 07/02/2005 2:58:11 PM PDT by w_over_w (Imagine if whenever we messed up in life we could press 'Ctrl Alt Delete' and start over?)
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To: snippy_about_it

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on July 02:
0419 Valentinian III Roman emperor (425-55)
1489 Thomas Cranmer England, archbishop/reformer/martyr
1810 Robert Augustus Toombs, Secy State (Confederacy), died in 1885
1830 John Bordenave Villepigue, Brig General (Confederate Army)
1865 Lili Braun Prussia, feminist/socialist writer (Im Schatten Titanen)
1877 Hermann Hesse Switzerland, novelist/poet (Steppenwolf, Nobel 1946)
1884 Dr Otto Bohm Prussia, scientist (helped create Radar)
1894 Walter Brennan Swampscott Mass, actor (Real McCoys)
1905 Jean-Rene Lacoste France, tennis champ/alligator shirt designer
1908 Thurgood Marshall Md, 1st black Supreme Court justice (1967-91)
1916 Barry Gray, [Bernard Yaroslaw], interviewer (the father of talk radio)
1916 Ken Curtis Lamar Colo, actor (Ripcord, Festus-Gunsmoke)
1922 Dan Rowan Beggs Okla, comedian (Rowan & Martin's Laugh-in)
1925 Marvin Rainwater Wichita Ks, country singer (Ozark Jubilee)
1925 Patrice Lumumba Zaire, revolutionary/1st premier of Congo

1937 Richard Petty auto race driver (Daytona 500-1979,81)

1939 John Sununu US Secretary of State (1989-91)
1940 Georgi Ivan Ivanov 1st Bulgarian space traveler (Soyuz 33)
1946 Ron Silver NYC, actor (Gary-Rhoda, "Bruno Gianelli"-The West Wing, Himself-Fahrenhype 9/11 )
1947 Luci Baines Johnson Nugent Turpin daughter of Pres LBJ
1952 Linda M Godwin Cape Girardeau Missouri, PhD/astronaut (STS 37)
1956 Jerry Hall Mesquite Tx, model/Mrs Mick Jagger
1959 Wendy B Lawrence Jacksonville Fla, USN Lt Commander/astronaut
1964 Jos‚ Canseco Havana Cuba, Oakland As (1986 Rookie Year, 1988 AL MVP)



Deaths which occurred on July 02:
1566 Nostradamus French astrologer/physician/prophet, dies in Salon (Never saw it coming)
1644 William Gascoigne introduced telescopic sights, is killed at 24
1798 John Fitch American inventor, clockmaker, etc, dies
1822 Denmark Vesey & 5 aides hanged at Blake's Landing, Charleston, SC (for planning a massive slave revolt)
1850 Robert "Bobbie" Peel, British PM/founder London Police, dies at 62
1863 Stephen Hinsdale Weed, US Union brig-general, dies in battle at 28
1932 Manoel II, last king of Portugal (1908-10), dies at 43
1935 Alfred Dreyfus, french colonel, dies
1949 Georgi Dimitrov, the founding leader of Bulgarian communism, died in Moscow while "undergoing medical treatment".
1961 Ernest Hemingway shot himself to death in Ketchum Idaho
1964 Glenn "Fireball" Roberts biggest NASCAR money winner, dies in crash
1969 Brian Jones co-founder of the Rolling Stones, drowns
1973 Betty Grable, US actress (How to Marry a Millionaire), dies at 56
1973 Swede Savage dies from injuries at Indianapolis 500
1977 Vladimir V Nabokov, Russian/US writer (Lolita), dies at 78
1987 Karl Linnas accused Nazi, dies of heart failure in Russia
1987 Michael Bennet Chorus Line director, dies of AIDS at 44
1991 Lee Remick actress, dies at 55 from cancer
1993 Don Drysdale, pitcher (Dodgers), dies of a heart attack at 56
1993 Fred Gwynne, actor (Officer Francis Muldoon, Car 54, where are you, Herman-Munsters), dies age 66
1995 Gail Gordon, actor (Our Miss Brooks, Lucy Show), dies of cancer at 89
1997 Jimmy Stewart, actor/pilot (It's a Wonderful Life), dies at 89


GWOT

Iraq
02-Jul-2003 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Corporal Travis J. Bradachnall Karbala (near) Non-hostile - ordnance accident

02-Jul-2004 4 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 1
US Lance Corporal James B. Huston Jr. Al Anbar Province Hostile - vehicle accident
US 2nd Lieutenant Brian D. Smith Habbaniyah [Al Anbar Prov.] Hostile - hostile fire - sniper
US Staff Sergeant Stephen G. Martin Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
UKR Sergeant Roman Genzersky Al Kut Non-hostile - weapon discharge (suicide)


Afghanistan
A Good Day

http://icasualties.org/oif/
Data research by Pat Kneisler
Designed and maintained by Michael White
//////////
Go here and I'll stop nagging.
http://www.taps.org/
(subtle hint SEND MONEY)


On this day...
0311 St Militiades begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1214 English king John begins siege around Lille France
1298 An army under Albert of Austria defeats and kills Adolf of Nassua near Worms, Germany.
1625 Spanish army take Breda, Spain, after nearly a year of siege
1644 Battle of Marston Moor; Parliamentary forces defeat royalists
1681 Earl of Shaftesbury arrested for high-treason
1687 King James II disbands English parliament

1776 Continental Congress resolves "these United Colonies are & of right ought to be Free & Independent States"

1777 Vermont becomes 1st American colony to abolish slavery
1787 de Sade shouts from Bastille that prisoners are being slaughtered

1788 It was announced in Congress that the new Constitution had been ratified by the required nine states, the ninth being New Hampshire on June 21.

1808 Simon Fraser completes his trip down Fraser R, BC, lands at Musqueam
1843 An alligator falls from the sky during a Charleston SC thunderstorm
1847 Envelope bearing the 1st US 10 cent stamps, (still exists today)
1850 Benjamin Lane patents gas mask with a breathing apparatus
1858 Partial emancipation of Russian serfs
1862 Lincoln signs act granting land for state agricultural colleges
1863 Battle of Gettysburg (2nd day) (little round top)
1864 Gen Early & Confederate forces reach Winchester
1864 Statuary Hall in US Capitol established
1865 William Booth founds Salvation Army (Army of the Salvation)
1867 1st US elevated railroad begins service, NYC

1882 James Garfield 20th President of the United States
assassinated by "job-seeker"

1885 Canada's North-west Insurrection ends with surrender of Big Bear
1890 Sherman Antitrust Act prohibits industrial monopolies
1894 Government obtains injunction against striking Pullman Workers
1900 Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin 1st airship LZ-1, flies
1901 Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid rob train of $40,000 at Wagner Montana
1902 John J McGraw becomes manager of NY Giants (stays for 30 years)
1906 Yanks win by forfeit, for their 1st time
1921 1st million dollar gate ($1.7m) boxing match (Dempsey KOs Carpentier)

1926 US Army Air Corps created; Distinguish Flying Cross authorized

1932 FDR makes 1st presidential nominating conventional acceptance speech
1937 Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan disappear over Pacific Ocean
1937 C Jackson discovers asteroids #1429 Pemba & #1456 Saldanha
1940 Lake Washington (Seattle) Floating bridge dedicated
1941 Nazi mass murder in Lvov/Lemberg (7,000 dead)
1941 DiMaggio breaks Willie Keeler's 44 game hitting streak (45th of 56)
1943 Lt Charles Hall(99th Fighter Squadron), becomes 1st black pilot to shoot down Nazi plane


1947 An "object" crashed near Roswell, N.M. The Army Air Force later insisted it was a weather balloon


1949 "Red Barber's Clubhouse" sports show premiers on CBS (later NBC) TV
1955 "Lawrence Welk Show" premiers on ABC
1956 Elvis Presley records "Hound Dog" & "Don't Be Cruel"
1957 1st sub powered by liquid metal cooled reactor completed-The Seawolf
1957 1st submarine designed to fire guided missiles launched, Grayback
1959 "Plan 9 From Outer Space," premieres (A classic of the cinamatic arts)
1961 Maris hits 29th & 30th en route to 61 homers

1964 Pres Johnson signs Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act into law

1967 U.S. Marine Corps launch Operation Buffalo in response to the North Vietnamese Army's (I mean the brave and selfless local villagers inspired by the words of Uncle Ho) efforts to seize the Marine base at Con Thien (and thus throw off the yoke of yankee imperilism that is oppressing the people)
1969 Leslie West & Felix Pappalardi form the rock group Mountain
1976 Formal reunification of North & South Vietnam (or else)
1976 Supreme Court ruled death penalty not inherently cruel or unusual
1981 L E Gonzalez discovers asteroid #3495 Colchagua
1982 Larry Walters using lawn chair & 42 helium balloons, rose to 16,000'
1982 Soyuz T-6 returns to Earth
1983 Ms. Behavin & TheRealMrB wed.
"It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life."
1985 European Space Agency launches Giotto to Halley's Comet
1986 Supreme Court upheld affirmative action in 2 rulings
1987 18 illegal immigrants are found dead inside a locked boxcar near Sierra Blanca, Texas, in what authorities called a botched smuggling attempt; a 19th man survived.
1988 Steffi Graff beats Martina Navratilova for Wimbeldon crown
1990 Imelda Marcos & Adnan Khashoggi found not guilty of racketeering
1993 White House acknowledges that it...erred in firing seven travel office employees and urging the FBI to investigate them. And the Hilliary had nothing what so ever to do with it, in fact she didn't even know there was a travel office. Besides she was to busy baking cookies and saving the world
1995 In Denver, representatives of 34 countries ended an economic summit by endorsing an open-market zone throughout the Western Hemisphere—excluding Cuba
1996 Lyle and Erik Menendez were sentenced to life in prison without parole. 7 years after killing their parents.
1998 Apologizing to viewers and Vietnam veterans for "serious faults" in its reporting, Cable News Network retracted a story alleging U.S. commandos had used nerve gas to kill American defectors during the war.
2000 Vincente Fox (58) wins persidental race in Mexico
2002 After 5 unsuccessful attempts, American Steve Fossett completed a round-the-world solo flight in a balloon, reaching Queensland in the Australian outback to finish a 19,428-mile trip that began June 19 in western Australia.
2004 China begins censoring telephone text messages to “block the dissemination of illicit news and information.”


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Italy : Corso de Palio, horse-race
Norway : King's Birthday
Iowa : Independence Sunday (Sunday)
Canada : Dominion Day/Canada Day (1867)(Monday)
Caribbean Common Market : Caribbean Day (1973)(Monday)
Lesotho : Family Day(Monday)
Zambia : Unity Day (Tuesday)
Let's Play Tennis Week Begins.
Carpenter Ant Awareness Week (Day 6)
I Forgot Day
International Joke Day
US : Honor America Days (thru 7-4)
National Ice Cream Month


Religious Observances
Old Catholic : Visitation of Mary


Religious History
0311 Miltiades was elected 32nd pope of the Catholic Church. During his pontificate,Christianity was finally tolerated by Rome, following the Emperor Constantine's conversionto the Christian faith.
1489 Birth of Thomas Cranmer, first Protestant Archbishop of Canterbury and primaryauthor of the 'Book of Common Prayer' and 'Thirty-Nine Articles' of the Anglican Church.
1752 The first Bible in America printed in English was published in Boston.
1918 Death of Washington Gladden, 82, a popular Congregational theologian of the SocialGospel. He also authored the hymn, 'O Master, Let Me Walk with Thee.'
1930 Pioneer linguistic educator Frank C. Laubach wrote in a letter: '[God has said to me,] If I do not speak to you in words at times, it is because the reality all about you is greater than the imperfect symbols of things which you have in words.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.


NEW WHITE HOUSE SHOCKER!
PRESIDENT TO NAME YODA HOMELAND SECURITY CHIEF
Bush refuses to change his mind even after learning Yoda isn't real

By ALFONSO PITELLI

IN a bombshell revelation that shocked even his closest Republican supporters, President George W. Bush announced that his new director of Homeland Security would be Yoda, the famed Jedi master from the Star Wars films.

White House insiders reveal that Bush got the idea after watching the new Stars Wars DVD set he said Santa gave him for Christmas.

"Yoda may not look like much on the outside," the commander in chief told a stunned White House press corps. "But the little guy is one heck of a warrior.

"Anybody with half a brain can see he's the perfect choice."

Bush noted that he was also impressed with the fact that Yoda is pint-size.

"I'll tower over him at press conferences -- which is important since I'm the president," he added.

On the face of it, the 894-year-old Yoda, a member of an undisclosed alien species, would seem like a good replacement for outgoing Homeland Security boss Tom Ridge.

Like Ridge, Yoda doesn't have a neck.

Also, Yoda is a master of The Force and has trained some of the top Jedi knights in the Star Wars galaxy, including Obi-Wan- Kenobi, Mace Windu, Qui-Gon- Jinn, Luke Skywalker and even Darth Vader, who turned evil.

But one administration source tells Weekly World News that Cabinet members were shocked when Bush announced his decision.

Vice President Dick Cheney reportedly blurted out, "But Yoda doesn't exist!" Still, the President refused to budge.

"Bush shot back, 'So what?,' " says the source. " 'I'm the president. If I say we're winning the war in Iraq, then we're winning it. If I say Saddam and Al Qaeda are linked, then they are. If I say we'll find weapons of mass destruction there, then we will -- eventually. Trust me on that one.' "

Adds the source, "As usual, Bush refused to change his mind even after learning that Yoda isn't real."

Instead, Bush told the Cabinet he was especially impressed with Yoda's 500-year track record in "fighting evildoers, like that Garth Vader guy."

He added, "And I'm particularly interested in his ability to sense fluctuations in The Force caused by evil acts. I see that ability to be an asset in predicting when and where our most vile enemies, like Osama Bin Laden, Abu al-Zarqawi and Michael Moore, will strike."

Even top political advisor Karl Rove tried to dissuade the President, pointing out that Yoda dies in Star Wars: Episode VI -- Return of the Jedi. But the President just clamped his hands over his ears and screamed, "Don't tell me what happens! I haven't seen that one yet."

White House chief of staff Andrew Card also noted that as an alien, Yoda may face trouble being confirmed by Congress.

"Well, I'm willing to cash in some of my political capital on this one," Bush said. "But first we'll have to get our friends at INS to give him a quickie green card."

Bush says one of the first things he expects the new director of Homeland Security to do is revamp the national terror attack warning system, which is now color-coded.

"He hates orange and red," says the source. "He says they clash with his eyes."


Thought for the day :
"Life is full of risks anyway, why not take them?"


16 posted on 07/02/2005 3:08:04 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: SAMWolf
Hey Sam~

Thanks again for the golf balls. Off the sweet spot of the club you don't even know you've made contact. Soft as sponge. But oh do they take off . . . like a howitzer! And with the breezes today the dimple design really cuts the air, but with a higher trajectory than I like.

I can't get over how soft they are. After about 6 holes I had to switch to a new one as I could tell they were loosing their shape and not rolling accurately on the putting surface.

Still, for the price (and I got mine free) it's a good deal. I'm a traditionalist, however, and will probably always play Titleist.

17 posted on 07/02/2005 3:16:14 PM PDT by w_over_w (Imagine if whenever we messed up in life we could press 'Ctrl Alt Delete' and start over?)
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To: snippy_about_it

According to this plan, the German Kriegsmarine should have grown to about 800 units, consisting of 13 battleships and battlecruisers, 4 aircraft carriers, 15 Panzerschiffe, 23 cruisers and 22 so called "Spähkreuzer" which were basically large destroyers. In addition to this many smaller vessels should have been build.


The problem with this is geography. No easy access to the open sea. The and Germany had no tradition of navel service. The Kriegsmarine was definitely the second service.
If they of built up the U-boat fleet... they very well might of won.

Just one mans opinion (freely given and worth almost that much)


18 posted on 07/02/2005 3:28:47 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: alfa6

Not only would the Volk have gotten restless

Something I'd never really thought about before. Expand please.


19 posted on 07/02/2005 3:32:51 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: Valin

If you look at the history of the NAZIs prior to the start of WW-II it was laways one gigantic bluff after another untill the Poland invasion. The march into the Rhineland in 1936 could have been put down and the NAZI regime ended by the use of a division or two at best by the French and English as the NAZIs had no real miltary "yet" in 1936. Like wise the takeover of the Czecks was predicated mostly on bluff as well.

As a side note I did read somewhere recently that the main reason that Chamberlin agreed to the Munich accord was to give Britian more time to re-arm.

The average Germasn was not all that keen on going to war as the memory of WW-I was still rather fresh in the memory.
However if the NAZIs keep pulling off these magnificent bluffs and getting away with it pretty soon the Volk start thinking, hmm maybe we are invincible.

Even after the British and French called the bluff with the Polish invasion there was nothing that the Allies could do right away owing to time and space considerations.
As far as the average German went the Polish campaign was a great success. yes there were some causalities but they weren't to many and after all the glorious armies of the Third Reich had conquered most of Poland in what, three weeks or so.

One final thought, one of the unintended conswquences of the Allied Strategic Bombing campaign was that it gave the average German somebody to hate and to unify against other than the NAZIs. Yea the NAZIs may have gotten the Germans into this war but the NAZIs were able to play the bombings into something that the citizens could rail against. Think of the British citizens during the blitz, eh.

Have to go, I am not sure I have explained things very well but have to gwet back to work./

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


20 posted on 07/02/2005 4:52:42 PM PDT by alfa6 (Rest, ve don't need no stinkin Rest)
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