Posted on 12/13/2004 1:19:37 PM PST by Calpernia
General Interest FYI ping
ping
Generally the term chemical weapons or bio weapons are just applied to "human-cides" not those that kill our friends the monochots and dichots. ;-)
The chemicals listed here are mostly "herbi-cides" and defoliants.
Ingested over a long time or in large quantities they are undoubtedly harmful.
I would not call these "chemical weapons used in Viet Nam". I did not see any blister, nerve, or bio-toxin agents on the list.
Let's not resort to hyperbole.
By the way -- a list of chemicals commonly found in French households would be just as scary. Probably even worse if you looked in the maids' closet in one of JF Kerry's mansions.
Not my words. I was just passing info on from Vietnam Vets.
Tonk, I don't understand half the stuff my Vet friends forward. You see I try to look up everything I don't know.
Apparently this list was pertinent information due to the latest probe disparity in reference to the benefits entitled to the Veterans.
I can't speak on any of this. I posted it in assumption that you guys would know what you need from it.
I can ask the mod to take it down.
Leave it up.
It's important info.
No question about their toxicity in the human physiology. No intent to diminsh that concern. Viet Nan vets were were repeatedly exposed to this crap. Not good for anyone.
It's just that the headline implies something other than exposure to herbicides, wetting agents, preservatives, solvents and defoliants. ( all bad I agree)
Proper application of these chemicals benefits all of us, protecting food supplies and stores from insects and fungi, protecting our hides from blood sucking, disease carrying critters and protecting our arable land from noxious weeds.
I don't condone the aerial spraying of defoliants in VN but only on the point of poor coordination with troop movement or location. Defoliants were used not to "burn" off leaves of trees but to cause them to abcise and fall, denying the enemy cover. This too worked to our benefit.
The only chem agent I know of that was used in VN was Phosgene (tear gas). Other stuff used in munitions was "willie peter" and napalm. Both nasty stuff.
Should I have the Admin Mod change the Title? What title do you think it should have?
Note that the article provided numbers for the amounts of gallons/pounds used in VN. Nothing said of how it was used, over what time period, over what area (size of area). E.g. I have a pest problem and need to spray 10 acres of crops to control it. I'll apply a pesticide diluted in 100 gal of water/acre or 1000 gallons of finished solution for the 10 acres. The recommended rate is 1 pound of pesticide/100 gal H2O/acre. Each pound of pesticide contains 10% active ingredient. I need 10 pounds of pesticide, 1000 gallons of water and good weather to apply it on 10 acres. I'll have to follow up this procedure in 7-10 days for control. I buy concentrate, dilute and mix to do this cause I sure as hell am not going to buy a container load of Raid to do it.
BTW, the stuff breaks down in 12-24 hours after application.
Do more math and your into ppm; good exercise.
All the stuff on the list are commonly used pesticides, fungicides and herbicides (though some have been discontinued)>
Biglook,
I don't understand any of that. I didn't write this nor did I title it.
I just know this went out to the vets in reference to monies due to them in befenits from disabilities that were caused by this stuff.
I will email Terry and ask him. But it may be titled what it is because this 'stuff' falls under the category for Vet Benefits????
As per the stated concerns on this forum and in private freep mail as to the title and intention of this post, I emailed the questions about the classification of these listed items as Chemical and Biological Weapons.
This is the response I received:
"Yes dear...pretty much the same thing....weapons that destroy not only trees, bushes, etc., to deny cover and concealment, but also to destroy food stocks is a weapon. Most of these things demonstrably also hurt people if you drop it on them or they ingest or breathe them. True, most of them don't act too fast as a weapon in the sense that nerve gas, mustard gas etc., do-but still do lots of damage-and long term damage-not just to the ones exposed-but also affects their families and causes birth defects/cancers, etc., for their offspring......."
Fair enough. But you damage your cause by calling these [harmful] chemicals 'bio-weapons or chemical weapons'. Sticking to the real issue keeps the discussion on the correct track -- helping the vets harmed by their exposure.
Back then we used leaded gasoline -- put that on the list too.
>>>>But you damage your cause by calling these [harmful] chemicals 'bio-weapons or chemical weapons'.
My cause? What is MY CAUSE? I only copied and pasted an email that the Vets wanted out here to VetsCorner. I didn't write it. I stated that in my response to you.
I am not a Vet. I am not MIL. I do research for a chapter.
Jim, please review this post. I only intended to share info. But from the posts and my mail, this seems to be a problem.
Please remove it if you see it is an issue.
These chemicals have been linked to the increased incidence of diabetes in Vietnam vets, I am one who is affected. As a helicoter pilot I flew several missions dispersing this stuff. Any Vietnam Vets who have diabetes should contact the VA to see what can be done for them. I haven't done that myself yet but will soon, as I was just diagnosed not too long ago.
Calpernia -- I fear you infer what I did not mean to imply. Your post is fine. The information from the email is useful and accurate.
My only issue was the headline.
We only seek the truth without hyperbole. ;-)
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