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The FReeper Foxhole Revisits Case White - The Invasion of Poland (9/1/1939) - Sept. 3rd, 2004
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/ww2/ww2-3.htm ^
Posted on 09/02/2004 10:59:14 PM PDT by snippy_about_it
Lord,
Keep our Troops forever in Your care
Give them victory over the enemy...
Grant them a safe and swift return...
Bless those who mourn the lost. .
FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer for all those serving their country at this time.
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The FReeper Foxhole Revisits
Invasion of Poland World War Two in Europe Begins
On September 1st, 1939, 1.8 million German troops invaded Poland on three fronts; East Prussia in the north, Germany in the west and Slovakia in the south. They had 2600 tanks against the Polish 180, and over 2000 aircraft against the Polish 420. Their "Blitzkrieg" tactics, coupled with their bombing of defenseless towns and refugees, had never been seen before and, at first, caught the Poles off-guard. By September 14th. Warsaw was surrounded. At this stage the poles reacted, holding off the Germans at Kutno and regrouping behind the Wisla (Vistula) and Bzura rivers. Although Britain and france declared war on September 3rd. the Poles received no help - yet it had been agreed that the Poles should fight a defensive campaign for only 2 weeks during which time the Allies could get their forces together and attack from the west.
There are many "myths" that surround the September Campaign; the fictional Polish cavalry charges against German tanks (actually reported by the Italian press and used as propaganda by the Germans), the alleged destruction of the Polish Air Force on the ground, or claims that Polish Armour failed to achieve any success against the invaders. In reality, and despite the fact that Poland was only just beginning to modernise her armed forces and had been forced (by Britain and france) to delay mobilisation (which they claimed might be interpreted as aggressive behavior) so that, at the time of invasion, only about one-third of her total potential manpower was mobilised, Polish forces ensured that the September campaign was no "walk-over".
The Wehrmacht had so under-rated Polish anti-tank capabilities (the Polish-designed anti-tank gun was one of the best in the world at that time) that they had gone into action with white "balkankreuz", or crosses, prominently displayed in eight locations; these crosses made excellent aiming points for Polish gun-sights and forced the Germans to radically rethink their national insignia, initially overpainting them in yellow and then, for their later campaigns, adopting the modified "balkankreuz" similar to that used by the Luftwaffe. The recently-designed 7TP "czolg lekki", or light tank, the first in the world to be designed with a diesel engine, proved to be superior to German tanks of the same class (the PzKpfw I and II) inflicting serious damage to the German forces, limited only by the fact that they were not used in concentrated groups. They were absorbed by the Germans into their own Panzer divisions at the end of the campaign.
German Panzer I and Panzer II vehicles with a Hanomag to their left. The German tanks were only lightly armed and armoured but when used in mass formations, they proved more than a match for the small number of Polish vehicles.
At 04.30 Stuka dive-bombers prematurely bombed the bridge at Tczew in the Pomeranian Corridor. SS troops dressed in Polish uniforms attacked the radio station at Gleiwitz and broadcast inflammatory statements urging Polish minorities to take up arms against Hitler. For a touch of realism, several bodies of concentration inmates dressed in Polish uniforms, were left behind as 'evidence' for journalists to report on.
The Free City of Danzig was heavily shelled and bombed, inflicting heavy casualties upon the civilian population and military coastal defences or navy flotillas. In Danzig, the defenders, particularly civilian volunteers were shot. The Army Pomorze faced the 4th Army whose tactic was to isolate them in the north from the rest of the Polish Forces and then link up with the Third Army and attack Warsaw.
JU87 Stuka
Daylong fighting produced at times, scenes of sheer heroism. The Pomorska Cavalry Brigade had been in contacts with the German 20th Motorized Infantry Division. Colonel Masterlarz had half the unit mount up and attempted a surprise attack from the rear. Catching an infantry battalion by surprise in a woodland clearing, the sabre attack wiped them out. Legends and myths were borne of cavalry units taking on armoured vehicles. However, what is forgotten, is that the cavalry units carried anti-tank weapons for rapid deployment.
On the Prussian Front the German Third Army broke through defences to the north of Warsaw. Ground attacks started at 05.00 and aimed to knock out the heavy fortifications at Mlawa. It was on this front that the Polish Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade had a number of sabre clashes with the German First Cavalry Brigade thus marking an end to mounted warfare. The Polish Special Operational Group Narew had virtually no contacts with German forces due to the restraining action of the Polish Third Army and therefore effectively denied rapid gains on this front.
The heaviest fighting took place in the Southwest, a front covered by Army Lodz and further south, Army Krakow. Army Poznan in the centre saw little action or contact on the first day of fighting. The German Eighth and Tenth Armies pushed through the massive densely forested areas with major infantry clashes en route. The Wolynska Cavalry Brigade successfully countered attacks by the German 4th Panzer Division whose poor co-ordination in attack delayed advance and lost equipment. This front was geographicaly the most diverse and faced the largest concentration of mechanized troops. The heaviest fighting was around the industrial zone of Katowice.
In the south, the 44th and 45th Infantry Divisions attacked throught the Jablonkow Pass near Karwina and Cieszyn which were lightly defended. In the southern mountainous area, the XXII Panzer Corps attacked just below Nowy Targ at the Dunajec river which was defended by the 1st KOP Regiment and National Guard Zakopane Battalion. Army Krakow was forced to commit support to stem the attack which was temporarily held.
Outflanked and harassed by German guerrilla units, Army Krakow had to deal with a large number of armed German units set up by the Abwehr to carry out sabotage.
Once the Germans broke through the various fronts, poor communications impeded any chance of reforming on a grand scale. From the 10th until 18th September Polish units were able to reform quickly and still were able to harass and inflict serious damage. For field commanders like Anders, confusion and contradictory orders added to the pain and humiliation of the inevitable defeat. Units attempted to move south-east despite heavy co-ordinated artillery bombardments. Soldiers and civilians who were able to bear arms bravely defended and resisted for as long as possible as they moved behind the Vistula. Encirclement began and 60,000 troops were destroyed at Radom. Partisan units were organized and regular army units kept moving southeast in order to gain supplies of food and munitions and regroup to avoid annihilation once the Russians entered the war on 17th September.
Polish P11 Fighter
On September 17th. Soviet forces invaded from the east. Warsaw surrendered 2 weeks later, the garrison on the Hel peninsula surrendered on October 2nd., and the Polesie Defence group, after fighting on two fronts against both German and Soviet forces, surrendered on October 5th. The Poles had held on for twice as long as had been expected and had done more damage to the Germans than the combined British and french forces were to do in 1940. The Germans lost 50,000 men, 697 planes and 993 tanks and armoured cars.
Thousands of soldiers and civilians managed to escape to france and Britain whilst many more went "underground" . A government-in-exile was formed with Wladyslaw Raczkiewicz as President and General Wladyslaw Sikorski as Prime Minister.
German forces in the outskirts of Warsaw. In the background of the photograph, the city burns as a result of the German military assault. Warsaw, Poland, September 1939.
Field commanders moved as many of the remnants of the army to an escape route which led to Romania and Hungary . Units breached German lines on 22nd September before Soviet troops blocked all routes. Poland finally fell on the 6th October as the last organized resistance was crushed at Hel and Kock. Zaloga and Madej (1991) estimated the Germans took 587,000 prisoners and the Soviets 200,000. Anders (1949) estimated between 200 - 300,000 escaped into Romania and Hungary through the Dukla Pass. Those who were caught by the Soviets may have been far higher (Anders, 1949). Fiedotov, an NKVD general estimated it to be nearer 475,000. However, if all those arrested including White Russians, Jews and political prisoners, the number was between 1.5 and 1.6m people. Transported to the Gulags, few survived.
The Fourth Partition:
Under the German-Soviet pact Poland was divided; the Soviets took, and absorbed into the Soviet Union, the eastern half (Byelorussia and the West Ukraine), the Germans incorporated Pomerania, Posnania and Silesia into the Reich whilst the rest was designated as the General-Gouvernement (a colony ruled from Krakow by Hitler's friend, Hans Frank).
Marshal Edward Smigly-Rydz
In the Soviet zone 1.5 million Poles (including women and children) were transported to labour camps in Siberia and other areas. Many thousands of captured Polish officers were shot at several secret forest sites; the first to be discovered being Katyn, near Smolensk.
The Germans declared their intention of eliminating the Polish race (a task to be completed by 1975) alongside the Jews. This process of elimination, the "Holocaust", was carried out systematically. All members of the "intelligentsia" were hunted down in order to destroy Polish culture and leadership (many were originally exterminated at Oswiencim - better known by its German name, Auschwitz). Secret universities and schools, a "Cultural Underground", were formed (the penalty for belonging to one was death). In the General-Gouvernement there were about 100,000 secondary school pupils and over 10,000 university students involved in secret education.
Refugees, September 1939
The Polish Jews were herded into Ghettos where they were slowly starved and cruelly offered hopes of survival but, in fact, ended up being shot or gassed. In the end they were transported, alongside non-Jewish Poles, Gypsies and Soviet POWs, to extermination camps such as Auschwitz and Treblinka; at Auschwitz over 4 million were exterminated. 2000 concentration camps were built in Poland, which became the major site of the extermination programme, since this was where most of the intended victims lived.
Many non-Jewish Poles were either transported to Germany and used as slave labour or simply executed. In the cities the Germans would round-up and kill indiscriminately as a punishment for any underground or anti-German or pro-Jewish activity. In the countryside they kept prominent citizens as hostages who would be executed if necessary. Sometimes they liquidated whole villages; at least 300 villages were destroyed. Hans Frank said, "If I wanted to put up a poster for every seven Poles shot, the forests of Poland would not suffice to produce the paper for such posters."
Polish 7TP light tanks
Despite such horror the Poles refused to give in or cooperate (there were no Polish collaborators as in other occupied countries). The Polish Underground or AK (Armia Krajowa or Home Army) was the largest in Europe with 400,000 men. The Jewish resistance movement was set up separately because of the problem of being imprisoned within the ghettos. Both these organisations caused great damage to the Nazi military machine. Many non-Jewish Poles saved the lives of thousands of Jews despite the fact that the penalty, if caught, was death (in fact, Poland was the only occupied nation where aiding Jews was punishable by death).
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TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: casewhite; freeperfoxhole; germany; history; michaeldobbs; poland; russia; samsdayoff; veterans; wwii
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Fighting on all Fronts:
The Polish Army, Navy and Air Force reorganised abroad and continued to fight the Germans. In fact they have the distinction of being the only nation to fight on every front in the War. In 1940 they fought in france, in the Norwegian campaign they earned a reputation for bravery at Narvik, and in Africa the Carpathian Brigade fought at Tobruk. Polish Squadrons played an important role in the Battle of Britain, accounting for 12% of all German aircraft destroyed at the cost of 33 lives. By the end of the war they had flown a total of 86,527 sorties, lost 1669 men and shot down 500 German planes and 190 V1 rockets.
The Polish Navy, which had escaped intact, consisted of 60 vessels, including 2 cruisers, 9 destroyers and 5 submarines ( one of which was the famous "Orzel") which were involved in 665 actions at sea. The first German ship sunk in the war was sunk by Polish ships. The Navy also took part in the D-Day landings.
When the Soviet Union was attacked by Germany, in June 1941, Polish POWs were released from prison camps and set up an army headed by General Anders. Many civilians were taken under the protection of this army which was allowed to make its way to Persia (modern-day Iran) and then on to Egypt. This army, the Polish Second Corps, fought with distinction in Italy, their most notable victory being that at Monte Cassino, in May 1944, and which opened up the road to Rome for the Allies as a whole. One of the "heroes" of the Polish Second Corps was Wojtek, a brown bear adopted in Iran as their mascot; at Monte Cassino Wojtek actually helped in the fighting by carrying ammunition for the guns. He died, famous and well-loved, in Edinburgh Zoo in 1964, aged 22.
Invading German troops enter the town of Lodz. Poland, September 8, 1939.
All the Polish forces took part in the Allied invasion of Europe and liberation of france, playing a particularly crucial role in the significant Battle of the Falaise Gap. The Polish Parachute Brigade took part in the disastrous Battle of Arnhem in Holland. In 1945, the Poles captured the German port of Wilhelmshaven.
In 1943 a division of Polish soldiers was formed in Russia under Soviet control and fought on the Eastern Front. They fought loyally alongside the Soviet troops, despite the suffering they had experienced in Soviet hands, and they distinguished themselves in breaking through the last German lines of defence, the "Pomeranian Rampart", in the fighting in Saxony and in the capture of Berlin.
Invading German troops approach Bydgoszcz. Poland, September 18, 1939.
The "Home Army", under the command of General Stefan Roweki (code-named "Grot"), and after his capture in 1943 (he was later murdered), by General Tadeusz Komorowski (code-named "Bor"), fought a very varied war; at times in open combat in brigade or division strength, at times involved in sabotage, often acting as execution squads eliminating German officials, and often fighting a psychological campaign against German military and civilians. It was a costly war since the Germans always took reprisals.
The Intelligence Service of the Home Army captured and sent parts of the V1 to London for examination, providing information on German military movements (giving advanced warning of the German plan to invade Russia), and gave the RAF full information about Peenemunde, where the Germans were producing V2 rockets.
Betrayal:
The crime of Katyn was discovered in 1943 and created a rift in Polish-Soviet relations. From now on the Home Army was attacked by Soviet propaganda as collaborating with the Germans and being called on to rise against the Germans once the Red Army reached the outskirts of Warsaw.
Secretly, at Teheran, the British and Americans agreed to letting the Russians profit from their invasion of Poland in 1939 and allowing them to keep the lands that had been absorbed. The "accidental" death of General Sikorski at this time helped keep protests at a minimum.
When the Russians crossed into Poland the Home Army cooperated in the fight against the Germans and contributed greatly to the victories at Lwow, Wilno and Lublin only to find themselves surrounded and disarmed by their "comrades-in-arms" and deported to labour camps in Siberia.
Captured Polish TKS tankettes
On August 1, 1944, with the Russian forces on the right bank of the Vistula, the Home Army rose in Warsaw; the Warsaw Rising. Heroic street-fighting involving the whole population, using the sewers as lines of communication and escape, under heavy bombardment, lasted for 63 days. The city was completely destroyed. Not only did the Russians cease to advance but they also refused to allow Allied planes to land on Russian airfields after dropping supplies. After surrendering many civilians and soldiers were executed or sent to concentration camps to be exterminated and Warsaw was razed to the ground.
The defeat in Warsaw destroyed the political and military institutions of the Polish underground and left the way open for a Soviet take-over.
With the liberation of Lublin in July 1944 a Russian-sponsored Polish Committee for National Liberation (a Communist Government in all but name) had been set up and the British had put great pressure, mostly unsuccessful, on the Government-in-exile to accept this status quo. At Yalta, in February 1945, the Allies put Poland within the Russian zone of influence in a post-war Europe. To most Poles the meaning of these two events was perfectly clear; Poland had been betrayed. At one stage the Polish Army, still fighting in Italy and Germany, was prepared to withdraw from the front lines in protest; after all, they were supposed to be fighting for Polish liberation. It is a reflection on Polish honour that no such withdrawal took place since it could leave large gaps in the front lines and so was considered too dangerous for their Allied comrades-in-arms.
The war ended on May 8th, 1945.
Today's Educational Sources and suggestions for further reading:
The FReeper Foxhole Remembers Case White - The Invasion of Poland (9/1/1939) - Sept 1st, 2003
To: All
............
The Cost:
The Poles are the people who really lost the war.
Polish Cavalry, September 1939
Over half a million fighting men and women, and 6 million civilians (or 22% of the total population) died. About 50% of these were Polish Christians and 50% were Polish Jews. Approximately 5,384,000, or 89.9% of Polish war losses (Jews and Gentiles) were the victims of prisons, death camps, raids, executions, annihilation of ghettos, epidemics, starvation, excessive work and ill treatment. So many Poles were sent to concentration camps that virtually every family had someone close to them who had been tortured or murdered there.
There were one million war orphans and over half a million invalids.
The Sigismund Monument stands amid rubble in the Polish capital after Germany's Blitzkrieg assault. Warsaw, Poland, 1939.
The country lost 38% of its national assets (Britain lost 0.8%, france lost 1.5%). Half the country was swallowed up by the Soviet Union including the two great cultural centres of Lwow and Wilno.
Many Poles could not return to the country for which they has fought because they belonged to the "wrong" political group or came from eastern Poland and had thus become Soviet citizens. Others were arrested, tortured and imprisoned by the Soviet authorities for belonging to the Home Army.
Although "victors" they were not allowed to partake in victory celebrations.
Through fighting "For Our Freedom and Yours" they had exchanged one master for another and were, for many years to come, treated as "the enemy" by the very Allies who had betrayed them at Teheran and Yalta.
Additional Sources: www.polandinexile.com
www.worldwar2database.com
www.ibiscom.com
www.ushmm.org
www.geocities.com/rob_mcd_aus
members.tripod.com/George_Parada
mailer.fsu.edu
www.wwnorton.com
www.wojciechowski.freeserve.co.uk
2
posted on
09/02/2004 11:00:24 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: All
One of Poland's greatest gifts towards the war effort was to have captured an Ultra machine early in the conflict. The true value of this encryption machine was instantly recognised by Polish and french code-breakers. Unfortunately, true recognition of its significance came later and the thanks given to the Poles hardly covers the couple of sentences in either archives or in historical text. '...in general the bravery and heroism of the Polish Army merits great respect.' Generalfeldmarschall Gerd von Rundstedt |
3
posted on
09/02/2004 11:00:54 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: Diva Betsy Ross; Americanwolf; CarolinaScout; Tax-chick; Don W; Poundstone; Wumpus Hunter; ...
"FALL IN" to the FReeper Foxhole!
It's Friday! Good Morning Everyone.
If you would like to be added to our ping list, let us know.
If you'd like to drop us a note you can write to:
The Foxhole
19093 S. Beavercreek Rd. #188
Oregon City, OR 97045
4
posted on
09/02/2004 11:02:05 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: All
John Kerry told the world we were war criminals who raped, tortured and murdered in Vietnam. Now, thirty-three years later, we will tell America the truth.
Join us at the rally we call:
What: A peaceful remembrance of those with whom we served in Vietnam - those who lived and those who died.
We will tell the story of their virtues and how that contrasts with the lies told by John Kerry.
When: Sunday, Sept. 12, 2004 @ 2:00 PM - 4:00 PM EDT
Where: The West Front of the U.S. Capitol Building, Washington, DC
All Vietnam veterans and their families and supporters are asked to attend. Other veterans are invited as honored guests. This will be a peaceful event--no shouting or contact with others with different opinions. We fought for their rights then, and we respect their rights now. This is NOT a Republican or a pro-Bush rally. Democrats, Republicans and independents alike are warmly invited.
Our gathering is to remember those with whom we served, thereby giving the lie to John Kerry's smear against a generation of fine young men. B.G. "Jug" Burkett, author of "Stolen Valor," will be one of our speakers. Jug has debunked countless impostors who falsely claimed to be Vietnam veterans or who falsely claimed awards for heroism. Jug recommends that we refrain from dragging fatigues out of mothballs. Dress like America, like you do every day. Dress code: business casual, nice slacks, and shirt and shoes. No uniform remnants, please. Unit hats OK.
Selected members will wear badges identifying them as authorized to speak to the media about our event. Others who speak to the media will speak only for themselves.
The program will be controlled in an attempt to stay on-message. Speakers are encouraged not to engage in speculative criticism of John Kerry but (1) to stick to known and undisputed facts about John Kerrys lies while (2) reminding America of the true honor and courage of our brothers in battle in Vietnam.
Send this announcement to 10 or more of your brothers! Bring them by car, bus, train or plane! Make this event one of pride in America, an event you would be proud to have your mother or your children attend.
Contact: kerrylied.com
Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization.
Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.
Thanks to quietolong for providing this link.
UPDATED THROUGH APRIL 2004
The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul
Click on Hagar for
"The FReeper Foxhole Compiled List of Daily Threads"
5
posted on
09/02/2004 11:04:05 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: snippy_about_it; Matthew Paul
Good Night, Snippy
6
posted on
09/03/2004 12:04:07 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target.)
To: SAMWolf
7
posted on
09/03/2004 12:08:24 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: snippy_about_it
Enigma Bump For the Foxhole
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
8
posted on
09/03/2004 1:04:58 AM PDT
by
alfa6
(Strip Mines make good fishing holes too!!!)
To: SAMWolf
And a good morning BUMP for SAM as well
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
9
posted on
09/03/2004 1:44:40 AM PDT
by
alfa6
(Back to work n the folders; 20 down, 170 to go)
To: snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Samwise; HairOfTheDog
Good morning ladies. It's Friday!
Friday Foxhole FReeper Flag-o-gram.
Today's Foxhole flag is from HairOfTheDog
See your flag here! FReepmail me today.
To: Professional Engineer
To: snippy_about_it
The post said the Poles "captured" and Enigma machine. This is a Cold War fiction. The reality is that Rajewski and others figured out the damned thing by pure brute intellect and this description of the machine: "It has tuning disks inside, lights on top marked with letters, a keyboard, and jumper wires plugged in to holes below the keyboard." There was also knowledge of pre-War commercial encryption machines that used turning wheels and made in Germany.
My own personal opinion is that the Polish cracking of Enigma gave NSA mathematics that allowed decryption of machine cyphers even as late as the air raid that nearly killed Kaddafi. That is why the story of the Polish cracking of Enigma could not be told until recently, since cyphers now are based on good mathematics. Rajewski and the boys did something as amazing as Einstein. Nah. More amazing.
Boy, am I a crypto nut!
12
posted on
09/03/2004 2:35:46 AM PDT
by
Iris7
("Democracy" assumes every opinion is equally valid. No one believes this is true.)
To: snippy_about_it
All you on this thread please don't think I am any sort of mathematician. My boy Daniel, now, he has talent. Going for a Ph.D. Man, I wish he lived closer, I could sit in on the classes he teaches. It would be the next thing to Heaven. Might even learn something if I work hard enough!
13
posted on
09/03/2004 2:40:54 AM PDT
by
Iris7
("Democracy" assumes every opinion is equally valid. No one believes this is true.)
To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, snippy and everyone at the Foxhole.
14
posted on
09/03/2004 3:02:12 AM PDT
by
E.G.C.
To: snippy_about_it
Good morning Snippy.
15
posted on
09/03/2004 3:20:59 AM PDT
by
Aeronaut
("To insist on strength...is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." --Barry Goldwater)
Comment #16 Removed by Moderator
To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All
September 3, 2004
Shallow Friendliness
Read: John 15:9-17
A man who has friends must himself be friendly. Proverbs 18:24
Bible In One Year: Psalms 140-142; 1 Corinthians 14:1-20
Recently I received a phone call from a friendly-sounding person who told me she wanted to make my life easier. She called me by my first name and warmly asked how my day was going. Then she informed me that she could help me save thousands of dollars a year if I would simply refinance my home with a particular mortgage company. But once she understood that I really wasn't interested, her friendliness evaporated.
Such insincere friendliness is often just a culturally correct attitude that some people use to impress others or to get something from them.
Contrast that self-serving attitude with the genuine friendship Jesus showed us. He said, "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends" (John 15:13). Then He demonstrated self-sacrificing love for us by dying on the cross to forgive our sins.
When we trust Jesus as our Savior and learn to obey Him, we experience a deep friendship that gives reality and sincerity to the friendliness we show to others.
Lord, help us to avoid the shallow friendliness that uses others to get what we want. Teach us instead to radiate the warmth of genuine Christlike friendliness to everyone we meet. Dave Egner
If friendliness is genuine,
It surely will convey
A warm and caring attitude
In all we do and say. D. De Haan
True friendliness can be a magnet that draws people to Christ.
17
posted on
09/03/2004 4:25:52 AM PDT
by
The Mayor
(Every loss leaves an empty space that only God's presence)
Comment #18 Removed by Moderator
To: snippy_about_it
19
posted on
09/03/2004 4:45:06 AM PDT
by
manna
Comment #20 Removed by Moderator
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