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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Battle of Oriskany (8/6/1777) - Apr. 14th, 2004
National Park Service ^

Posted on 04/14/2004 12:00:05 AM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

Welcome to "Warrior Wednesday"

Where the Freeper Foxhole introduces a different veteran each Wednesday. The "ordinary" Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine who participated in the events in our Country's history. We hope to present events as seen through their eyes. To give you a glimpse into the life of those who sacrificed for all of us - Our Veterans.

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click on the books below.

Setting the Stage


With the outbreak of hostilities in 1775, it became clear that New York was vital to military victory. If the British could defeat the Rebel forces in New York, they would control trade between the Atlantic Ocean and the Great Lakes and divide the colonies. They also would be able to feed their troops from the bounty of the Mohawk Valley, the "bread basket" of the Revolutionary War.


The British Northern Campaign of 1777.


In 1777, the British conceived an ambitious plan for the conquest of New York. This plan called for a three prong attack into the heart of the colony with all three invading forces meeting in Albany. The first army, led by General John Burgoyne, was to invade New York moving south from Canada through the Lake Champlain–Hudson River corridor to Albany. The second force, to be commanded by General William Howe, was to move north up the Hudson River Valley from New York City to Albany. The third and final British troops, commanded by General Barry St. Leger, were to move down Lake Ontario from Canada to Oswego, New York and hook eastward through the Mohawk Valley towards Albany.

This plan was dependent on coordination between the armies and the anticipated rallying to arms of the large Tory population the British believed existed in New York. Rebel leaders in New York prepared to defend the state and reinforced the Mohawk Valley. At the ravine of Oriskany in August 1777, the two sides clashed for control of New York.

Growing Tensions in Central New York




The tensions that existed between the people of central New York during the colonial era are well documented. While Swedish scientist Peter Kalm was on a botanical expedition in 1749-1750, he wrote about the relationship between the English and Dutch colonists who first settled the area:

The hatred which the English bear against the people at Albany is very great, but that of the Albanians (the Dutch colonists) against the English is carried to a ten times higher degree. This hatred has subsisted ever since the English conquered this section, and is not yet extinguished, though they could never have gotten larger advantages under the Dutch government than they have obtained under that of the English. ...They are so to speak permeated with hatred toward the English, whom they ridicule and slander at every opportunity.



In the 1757, Thomas Butler, member of an English family that held large amounts of land in New York, corresponded with Sir William Johnson, another great English landholder and Superintendent of Indian Affairs:

I have often Said and do Yet That if any Troubles Shou'd arise between the Six Nations and us it will in Great Manner Or intirely be owing to bad ignorant people of a difrant Extraction from the English that makes themselves too busey in telling idle Stories. I fear we have too many of those who Speak the Indian Tongue More or less and dont Consider the Consequence of Saying we are Dutch and they are English that they had a fight Together last winter in Schenectady. the Dutch there beat the English. The quarrell was because they wou'd not allow the English To be Masters and take from them all they had. that the English wanted to drive them about like dogs, this Story I imagin proceeded from a small dispute between the battoe Men and Soldars last fall, and the English are Severe on the people at albany taking from them what they pleas breaking open their doors when they will, had forced Capt. Herkemer out of his House.


Sketch of Oriskany Battlefield, 1848


Sir William Johnson was aware of other tensions between the English and German settlers, including prominent German immigrant Johan Jost Herkimer (or Hercheimer) with whose family Johnson's family had often quarreled. He worried about the alarming sale by the Germans of large quantities of rum to the Iroquois Confederacy and the wedge it was driving between the British authorities and the Six Nations, when he wrote to James Abercromby in 1758:

I believe Sir I have the Honour of your Concurrance in Opinion that for the present at least, it will be both Politick and prudent not to indulge the Indians with a Trade at the German Flats. In a Message I have just sent to the Six Nations, part of which is on this Subject, I have told them that you do not incline, to trust the Lives and properties of His Majestys Subjects to the Assurances of those, who late Experience shows are either not able or not willing to fulfill them, and that at Albany and Schenectady they are welcome to come and trade.

I have many Reasons to believe, and many Informations to strengthen, that some Germans are interfering with the Indians in a way that will be very prejudicial, and may perhaps be fatal to His Majestys Service.



Joseph Brant, 1786.
Painted by Gilbert Stuart.


After the French and Indian War had ended, Great Britain sought to gain stronger control of the colonies and started to impose taxes on the colonists to reduce Britain's enormous national debt incurred while fighting the war. Rival groups, because of ethnic, religious, or economic differences, began to align themselves politically. In general, those who became Rebels were fighting for the right of self-governance and freedom from British control. Those who chose to be Tories, on the other hand, were fighting to maintain their ties with Great Britain and the British King. There were also cases where people simply preferred to keep things the way they were, and fought to maintain the status quo, so were Tories by default. The explosive mixture of old grudges with the political and philosophical arguments of the revolutionary era turned New York into a powder keg.

Once hostilities broke out in 1775, New Yorkers were forced to choose sides. Upon the death of Sir William Johnson in 1774, his son John inherited a 200,000 acre estate and, in later years, also became Superintendent of Indian Affairs. Sir John Johnson chose to be loyal to Great Britain and gathered ammunition and raised a militia group called the "King's Royal Regiment of New York."


General Nicholas Herkimer


Nicholas Herkimer, son of Johan Jost Herkimer, a wealthy German-American trader and owner of 2,000 acres of land, chose the Rebel cause. In 1776 Nicholas Herkimer was made a Brigadier General in the New York State militia and charged with defending the state against Tories and Indians. Herkimer and General Philip Schuyler, with their Rebel militia, forced Johnson's militia to disarm and disband. Johnson fled for Canada, fearful that he would be arrested for his Tory beliefs. Ironically, Nicholas Herkimer's brother, Han Yost Herkimer, chose the Tory cause and became a Captain in the Indian Department; the Herkimers were one of many families split by New York's civil war.

One apparent exception to the rivalries in colonial New York appeared to be the Iroquois Confederacy. For 500 years the six nations of the Iroquois Confederacy had mutually supported and protected one another. However, continued European settlement along the New York frontier had generated tensions between the Confederacy and European settlers. In 1768, in an attempt to set a boundary line to solve this chronic problem, the British convened a meeting at Fort Stanwix, which had been abandoned following the French and Indian War and was in disrepair. As many as 3,000 delegates from the Iroquois, Shawnee, and Delaware Nations met with the representatives of the King of Great Britain. Instead of resolving tensions, the boundary line divided the Iroquois Confederacy into factions, some opposed and others allied with the King and Great Britain.


Colonel John Butler


At the outbreak of the American Revolution, the Iroquois Confederacy had to decide whether to support one side or the other as a single confederacy or whether to allow each of the six member nations to decide individually. The Onondaga Nation was the keeper of the Central Council Fire, the symbol of the Iroquois Confederacy's 500 years of unity. Although they urged continued unity and neutrality, the six tribes could not agree on a single course of action. The Central Council Fire was then extinguished due to deaths of sachems and chiefs caused by disease. Iroquois unity was irrevocably broken. British and Rebel diplomats courted the favor of the individual tribes, hoping to get them to support their side or remain neutral. The Mohawk, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca Nations chose to support Great Britain. Although originally neutral, by July 1777, the Oneida and Tuscarora Nations would support the Rebels. There were many individuals who did not choose to accept the decision of their respective nations, so both Tories and Rebels counted among their forces members of all six nations.


Joseph Brandt
(Thayendanegea)


Mohawk Joseph Brant, or Thayendanega, was a relative of Sir John Johnson. His sister, Mary (Molly) Brant, became the common law wife of Sir William Johnson after the death of John's mother. British educated and a member of the Anglican Church, Joseph Brant supported the Tory cause and eventually received a British Officer's commission as a captain. Just 37 days before the Battle of Oriskany, General Herkimer and Rebel militia troops went to investigate claims that Joseph Brant was attempting to raise Tory troops for an impending attack on the Mohawk Valley. On June 29 and 30, 1777 Herkimer met with Brant and unsuccessfully attempted to persuade him to stay neutral during the war. By August 1777, sides had been chosen, the participants were armed, and the stage was set for the first major battle between Tories and Rebels.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: americanrevolution; england; freeperfoxhole; johnbutler; josephbrant; mohawk; newyork; nicholasherkimer; oneida; oriskany; revolutionarywar; veterans; warriorwednesday
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To: Johnny Gage
Good mornning Johnny. Nice landing.
41 posted on 04/14/2004 8:12:22 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: bentfeather
You have a Treadhead Brother?
42 posted on 04/14/2004 8:32:22 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Have to admit I knew very little about this battle before I started researching it.
43 posted on 04/14/2004 8:33:39 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: snippy_about_it
LOL! I wish I would have thought of that.;-)
44 posted on 04/14/2004 8:34:24 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: Valin
Well I guess if Jennings said so it must be true. I'd have my doubts if Rather had told you. ;-)
45 posted on 04/14/2004 8:35:41 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: SAMWolf
Rather IS from Texas you know. And we all know what a bunch of liars anyone from Texas is!
46 posted on 04/14/2004 8:52:46 AM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
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To: snippy_about_it
Howdy ma'am
47 posted on 04/14/2004 10:15:20 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Descendant of a bunch of dead white guys..........who conquered the world.)
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To: bentfeather
Good morning miss Feather.


48 posted on 04/14/2004 10:22:18 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Descendant of a bunch of dead white guys..........who conquered the world.)
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To: Valin
1981 1st Space Shuttle-Columbia 1-returns to Earth


49 posted on 04/14/2004 10:34:09 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Descendant of a bunch of dead white guys..........who conquered the world.)
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To: SAMWolf
Hiya Sam
50 posted on 04/14/2004 10:38:07 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Descendant of a bunch of dead white guys..........who conquered the world.)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
Afternoon, folks. Interesting post today.

The only reason I've heard of this battle is the old movie "Drums Along the Mohawk." John Ford, Henry Fonda, Claudette Colbert. Definitely worth a rental.

51 posted on 04/14/2004 11:05:22 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Valin; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
Well, the important question about the New York campaigns is when will President Washington admit he made mistakes and apologize to the American people for losing New York City to the British???
52 posted on 04/14/2004 11:13:55 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Valin
Rather IS from Texas

Oh No! Say it ain't so!!

53 posted on 04/14/2004 11:38:59 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: Professional Engineer
Morning PE.
54 posted on 04/14/2004 11:39:55 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: colorado tanker; snippy_about_it
"Drums Along the Mohawk."

Morning CT. Thanks for the movie recommendation.

Snippy and I are about to sit down and watch "Kelly's Heroes", she had a deprived upbringing and never saw it. :-)

55 posted on 04/14/2004 11:41:58 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: colorado tanker
Yeah! And why didn't Bush do anything to prevent the attacks on New York??? He had to know they were coming!
56 posted on 04/14/2004 11:43:05 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Live long and prosper... But don't let the IRS know.)
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To: All

Air Power
Sikorsky RH-53D

The RH-53D is used primarily for Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM), with a secondary mission of shipboard delivery. To complete its experiments with the RH-3A, the US Navy borrowed nine CH-53Ds from the Marines, fitted with devices for the detection, sweeping and neutralization of all types of mines. This variant was designated RH-53D, and 30 were produced for the US Navy and six for the Iranian Navy. The RH-53 had 1900 liter supplementary fuel tanks, a 270kg hoist and 11340kg cargo hook.

In April 1971 HM-12, the Navy's first helicopter squadron devoted exclusively to mine countermeasures was established at NAS Norfolk. The mission of HM-12 was to remove/eliminate enemy mines from sealanes and amphibious operating areas. To accomplish this task HM-12 helicopters towed specially designed mechanical magnetic and acoustic minesweeping equipment which would activate the enemy mines, thereby eliminating them as a threat to future operations in the area. HM-12 employed CH-53A Sea Stallions until they received the Sikorsky RH-53D built specifically for mine countermeasures. At the beginning of 1973, these helicopters were used by US Navy Task Force 78 for Operation Endsweep, to free the North Vietnamese ports of mines.

The first production RH-53D Sea Stallion, especially configured for the airborne mine countermeasures mission, arrived at the Naval Air Test Center for weapons system trials in May 1973. Navy preliminary evaluation and the initial phase of the Board of Inspection and Survey trials had begun at Sikorsky Aircraft Division on 15 May 1973. HM-12 received the first RH-53D Sea Stallion helicopters in November 1973.

In May 1974 a twelve-plane detachment of RH-53D Sea Stallions from NAS Norfolk's HM-12 began minesweeping the Suez Canal as part of Project NIMBUS STAR. In April 1979 an RH-53D Sea Stallion from HM-12 set a new nonstop, transcontinental flight by flying from Norfolk, Virginia, to San Diego, California. The helicopter flew 2,077-nm in 18.5 hours, air refueling from an Air National Guard HC-130 Hercules. The flight demonstrated the long-range, quick-response capability of the RH-53D helicopter and was commanded by Lieutenant Rodney M. Davis.

The 1977 arrival of four RH-53D helicopters to Fleet Logistics Support Squadron TWO FOUR (VR-24) ushered in a new era in combat logistics support. Entitled Vertical Onboard Delivery (VOD), the "VOD Squad" of VR-24 possessed a helicopter heavy lift capability never before seen in the Mediterranean Theater.

The "VOD Squad" provided service to ships of the SIXTH FLEET until 1983 when their helicopters were transferred to the Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM)community. Foreseeing an expansion of the VOD mission, the Navy purchased the new, three engine, seven blade, Sikorsky CH-53E "Super Stallion" and on 6 May 1983, HELSUPPRON FOUR was established as the Navy's first heavy lift, helicopter combat support squadron.

As of 1996 Marine Corps Reserve RH-53D helicopters were scheduled to be replaced with CH-53D/E helicopters, identical to active component models.

Specifications:
Contractor: Sikorsky Aircraft (Prime), General Electric (Engines)
Unit cost: $25 million (1993 dollars)
Crew: Two officers (pilots); four enlisted (two flight engineers, two aerial gunners)
Date Deployed: 1981

Airframe:
Seven-blade main rotor
Four-blade canted tail rotor
Designed for land- and ship-based operations
Automatic flight control and anti-icing systems give the helicopter an all-weather flight capability.
Empty weight: 33,226 pounds
Maximum gross weight: 73,500 pounds
Fuel capacity: 15,483 pounds (2,277 gallons/JP-5)
Overall length: 99 ft 1/2 in
Height: 28 ft 4 in
Rotor diameter: 79 ft
Power Plant: Three General Electric T64-GE-416/416A turboshaft engines 4,380 shaft horsepower each

Performance :
Maximum range (unrefueled): 480 nautical miles
Ferry range: 990 nautical miles
Maximum endurance (unrefueled): 5.1 hours
Maximum allowable airspeed: 150 knots

Countermeasures:
APR-39 Radar Hazard Warning Set
ALE-39 Chaff and Flare Dispenser
ALQ-157 Infrared Jammer
AAR-47 Missile Warning System

Mission and Capabilities:
Primary mission is movement and vertical delivery of cargo and equipment.
When properly equipped, can be used for airborne mine countermeasures (AMCM)
Designed to carry 32,000 pounds of cargo at cruise speed to a range of no less than 50 nautical miles
At destination, the helicopter can discharge its cargo, equipment, or troops and return no less than 50 nautical miles
  arriving with at least 20 minutes of fuel in reserve.
Designed to retrieve another CH-53E at a range of 20 nautical miles
Can be configured for wheeled or palletized cargo
Seats for 55 passengers or litters for 24 patients
External cargo of up to 36,000 pounds may be transported by using either the single- or two-point suspension system.
Can conduct air-to-air refueling and helicopter in-flight refueling (HIFR)
Has provisions for internal range extension tanks






All information and photos Copyright of Global Security.Org
57 posted on 04/14/2004 11:53:26 AM PDT by Johnny Gage (Just say NO.... to cheese eating, beret wearing, wine sipping surrender monkeys.)
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To: SAMWolf
Kelly's Heroes?

"Crazy! I mean like so many positive waves maybe we can't lose!"

58 posted on 04/14/2004 11:57:21 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: SAMWolf
And why didn't President Bush reinforce the Alamo? Why didn't he internationalize the problem and call for help from the UN or France? But no, he had to go it alone and suffer the slaughter at the Alamo. His adviser, Deputy Dick, said Santa Ana would attack somewhere in Texas, sometime, and that they should "shake the trees." Bush calls himself a Texan . . . .
59 posted on 04/14/2004 12:05:19 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Professional Engineer
Good afternoon PE. Nice flag. :-)
60 posted on 04/14/2004 12:06:47 PM PDT by Soaring Feather (~The Dragon Flies' Lair~ Poetry and Prose~)
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