Ron Paul, Rudy Giuliani and Double Standards

TheAtlantic.com ^ | 13 Nov 2007 10:56 am | Andrew Sullivan

[George W. Bush]

<snip>

There are plenty of reasons to be perturbed when loons and hate-mongers support a candidacy. But this game of guilt-by-association can be played endlessly. I tend to place greater emphasis on loons and hate-mongers that candidates actively seek out. Pat Robertson is a loon and an anti-Semite and a vicious homophobe who blamed Americans for 9/11. Giuliani didn't receive some unsolicited money from him; he actually stood on a platform and embraced him. Why one standard for Paul and another for Giuliani? If Obama embraced Louis Farrakhan as a supporter, you think Goldfarb and Kirchick would be silent? They'd have a cow because it's unthinkable. But naked bigotry is more than thinkable in today's GOP: it's integral to it. What's the difference between Farrakhan and Robertson? I can't see any. Maybe Goldfarb and Kirchick can spell it out.

Giuliani also promoted and endorsed a seriously mobbed up man to be head of the DHS; he fully embraces and employs a priest credibly accused of sex abuse of a minor (and refuses to distance himself from him); and actively endorses torture as a foreign policy weapon. Jamie Kirchick actually supports Giuliani for president - but is hyper-ventilating about a $500 check that Paul hasn't even decided what to do with! There you have the massive double-standards on the neocon right.

Here's an idea: when Giuliani disowns his abusing priest, his mafia-consigliere and his anti-Semitic nutcase, Ron Paul should send back the $500. Deal?

[lormand]

The crazy train keeps rolling eh?

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

The crazy train keeps rolling eh?

They exceeded the speed of crazy months ago. Sort of like Chuck Yaeger, if he'd been born with only half a head. ;)

[SJackson]

The crazy train keeps rolling eh?

Read the thread, it's a keeper. Pat Robertson, Rudy Giuliani, antisemites of the caliber of Duke, Carto and Black. Breathtaking stupidity

[trisham]

Regarding 9/11:

"They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East."

~Ron Paul~

[Wallace T.]

The worst Robertson has done here is to engage in some hyperbole about the extent of Christian persecution and rehash unprovable conspiracy theories advocated by some unsavory characters in the past. Most of his statements, such as male headship of the home, salvation exclusively through faith in Jesus Christ, and condemnation of homosexuality, are entirely Biblical Christian beliefs on which Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox agree. His condemnation of the homosexual agenda and their uncivil tactics, denunciation of feminism, rejection of the modern liberal doctrine of separation of religion and government, and recognition of the perverted sexuality of the Nazi leaders are accurate and truthful.

Giuliani is my least favorite GOP Presidential candidate, and my Christian beliefs are different in some respects from those of Robertson, and his political views are too statist for my tastes. However, these anti-Giuliani and anti-Robertson attacks are as "over the top" as are the screeds the anti-Ron Paul crowd posts.

[KDD]

A misleading article prominent on Robertson's CBN.com makes the stunning claim that the Jews manipulate their Sabbath services so that synagogue worshipers reject Jesus. The article, "The Passion According to Isaiah", claims that the weekly recitation of verses from the Prophets (haftara) in synagogues worldwide were specifically designed to avoid a passage in Isaiah that Christians interpret as a reference to Jesus.

"This is a serious charge against Judaism for which there is not a single shred of evidence.... The absurdity of this claim lies in the fact that the selections for the weekly reading of verses from the Prophets, including those from Isaiah, predate Christianity by two centuries. What motive did Jews have for preventing worshipers from converting to Christianity, when at the time the custom to read from the Prophets was created, Christianity and Jesus didn't even exist?" asks [Rabbi Toviah] Singer.

There are plenty of reasons to be perturbed when loons and hate-mongers support a candidacy. But this game of guilt-by-association can be played endlessly. I tend to place greater emphasis on loons and hate-mongers that candidates actively seek out. Pat Robertson is a loon and an anti-Semite and a vicious homophobe who blamed Americans for 9/11.

Giuliani didn't receive some unsolicited money from him; he actually stood on a platform and embraced him. Why one standard for Paul and another for Giuliani?

Pat Robertson, Rudy Giuliani, antisemites of the caliber of Duke, Carto and Black.

So why the double standard SJackson...Is it possible that you support the anti semite Rudy?

[KDD]

And I haven’t even started on Pat Robertson’s book...what was that anti semitic screed called? The Coming New World Order? Rudy needs to distance himself from this anti semitic loon...don’t you think?

[lormand]

Ron Paul echoes enemy propaganda. He and his idiot minion need to be shown the door.

[George W. Bush]

you’ve called me an anti-Semite too

What? I did not.

In that vein, the Republican Jewish Coalition should be criticized, and Jews don’t vote for Republicans anyway, so who cares what they think.

I think they have an obvious double standard. And you still won't address how many votes they can deliver or their miserable fundraising capability. Did they even break a half-million for the GOP in recent elections? I'm thinking I saw a number like $465,000 recently but can't recall if that was for 2004 or for 2006.

As for their voters in Iowa or NH, look at those tiny numbers and assume that no more than 1/3 third of those Jewish voters are likely to cast a GOP ballot in the primary or the general. And Iowa has a Jewish GOP candidate on the ballot, probably draining their numbers even further.

So where is their money and where are their votes? If you want to pretend they're so important to the GOP in selecting a nominee or electing a president, that is the crucial point.

We've heard this blather about the great Jewish Republican revolution ever since 2000. But it never happens and in the next election, we get another round of this mythical sea-change realignment of Jewish voters. You're just peeved when someone points it out.

[lormand]

"Might as well let the Paultards start plastering Ted Rall cartoons all over the place, while we're at it."

Tell me, it wouldn't surprise you if they did would it?

Just try and do a parody of a Paultard and you will find that you wasted your precious time doing so only to be one-up'd by this bunch.

[jmc813]

He and his idiot minion need to be shown the door.

Here we go with the moderator fantasies again.

[KDD]

WHY SOME MIGHT THINK PAT'S AN ANTI-SEMITE

[lormand]

"Here we go with the moderator fantasies again."

Try realities. Shall I show you the Rudy-tooter thread?

Idiots have been banned here before, and many Paultards no longer have accounts here.

I think a great case can be made to purge this forum of members who support a candidate who echoes enemy propaganda.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

I think a great case can be made to purge this forum of members who support a candidate who echoes enemy propaganda.

Moved and seconded.

[SJackson]

So why the double standard SJackson...Is it possible that you support the anti semite Rudy?

I don't think Rudy is an antisemite, I don't think Pat Robertson. There's nothing to condemn either of them for on that account.

I do think David Duke, Willis Carto and Don Black are antisemites and racists, have lifelong trackrecords of espousing hate, and I will condemn them, and the moral vapidness of a political candidate who is unwilling to reject their support.

My position is clear and consistant.

You've noted your condemnation of Giuliani and Robertson as antisemites, absurd imo, and I presume by extension of the Republican Party who has been silent about this purported embrace of hate.

Anything to say about Duke/Carto/Black and candidates who accept their support?

[lormand]

There have been in the past, Freepers who contribute money to the forum for every idiot account getting permanently banned.

I have my credit card here ready.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

Count me in, as well. I want my conservative forum -- pro-life and anti-Islamofascism -- back.

Anybody else up for this? Shout out, if so... and Ping three more potentially like-minded FReepers, while doing so.

[jmc813]

When I see you show up on the FR Donor list, I'll start taking your threats of purging people off an internet chat site seriously. You people are unhinged.

[Allegra]

I think a great case can be made to purge this forum of members who support a candidate who echoes enemy propaganda.

Count me in as well. I get tired of feeling like I'm on DU half the time around here. FR is one of my sanctuaries.

There have been in the past, Freepers who contribute money to the forum for every idiot account getting permanently banned.

I'm all for that, too.

Kent: Anybody else up for this? Shout out, if so... and Ping three more potentially like-minded FReepers, while doing so.

Done.

[lormand]

Ever heard of anonymous donations?

Should Soros buy his way into Freerepublic using your logic?

Judging by the comments I read from Paultards, one would think so.