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Thomas A. Droleskey on the Lies of Protestantism
Seattle Catholic ^ | September 29, 2003 | Thomas A. Droleskey

Posted on 09/30/2003 9:32:47 AM PDT by Fifthmark

Protestantism is founded on many lies: (1) That Our Blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did not create a visible, hierarchical Church. (2) That there is no authority given by Our Lord to the Pope and his bishops and priests to govern and to sanctify the faithful. (3) That each believer has an immediate and personal relationship with the Savior as soon as he makes a profession of faith on his lips and in his heart, therefore being perpetually justified before God. (4) Having been justified by faith alone, a believer has no need of an intermediary from a non-existent hierarchical priesthood to forgive him his sins. He is forgiven by God immediately when he asks forgiveness. (5) This state of justification is not earned by good works. While good works are laudable, especially to help unbelievers convert, they do not impute unto salvation. Salvation is the result of the profession of faith that justifies the sinner. (6) That grace is merely, in the words of Martin Luther, the snowflakes that cover up the "dungheap" that is man. (7) That there is only one source of Divine Revelation, Sacred Scripture. (8) That each individual is his own interpreter of Sacred Scripture. (9) That there is a strict separation of Church and State. Princes, to draw from Luther himself, may be Christians but it is not as a Christian that they ought to rule. These lies have permutated in thousands of different directions. However, they have sewn the fabric of the modern state and popular culture for nearly 500 years (I shudder to think how the Vatican is going to commemorate the 500th anniversary of Luther's posting his 95 theses on the church doors in Wittenberg fourteen years from now).

Here below are explanations of these lies and their multifaceted implications for the world in which we live:

(1-2) The contention that Our Lord did not create a visible, hierarchical church vitiates the need for a hierarchical, sacerdotal priesthood for the administration of the sacraments. It is a rejection of the entirety of the history of Christianity prior to the Sixteenth Century. It is a denial of the lesson taught us by Our Lord by means of His submission to His own creatures, Saint Joseph and the Blessed Mother, in the Holy Family of Nazareth that each of us is to live our entire lives under authority, starting with the authority of the Vicar of Christ and those bishops who are in full communion with him. The rejection of the visible, hierarchical church is founded on the prideful belief that we are able to govern ourselves without being directed by anyone else on earth. This contention would lead in due course to the rejection of any and all religious belief as necessary for individuals and for societies. Luther and Calvin paved the way for Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the French Revolution that followed so closely the latter's deification of man.

(3-6) Baptism is merely symbolic of the Christian's desire to be associated with the Savior in the amorphous body known as the Church. What is determinative of the believer's relationship with Christ is his profession of faith. As the believer remains a reprobate sinner, all he can do is to seek forgiveness by confessing his sins privately to God. This gives the Protestant of the Lutheran strain the presumptuous sense that there is almost nothing he can do to lose his salvation once he has made his profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. There is thus no belief that a person can scale the heights of personal sanctity by means of sanctifying grace. It is impossible, as Luther projected from his own unwillingness to cooperate with sanctifying grace to overcome his battles with lust, for the believer to be anything other than a dungheap. Thus a Protestant can sin freely without for once considering that he has killed the life of sanctifying grace in his soul, thereby darkening his intellect and weakening the will and inclining himself all the more to sin-and all the more a vessel of disorder and injustice in the larger life of society.

(7-8) The rejection of a visible, hierarchical Church and the rejection of Apostolic Tradition as a source of Divine Revelation protected by that Church leads in both instances to theological relativism. Without an authoritative guide to interpret Divine Revelation, including Sacred Scripture, individual believers can come to mutually contradictory conclusions about the meaning of passages, the precise thing that has given rise to literally thousands of Protestant sects. And if a believer can reduce the Bible, which he believes is the sole source of Divine Revelation, to the level of individual interpretation, then there is nothing to prevent anyone from doing the same with all written documents, including the documents of a nation's founding. If the plain words of Scripture can be deconstructed of their meaning, it is easy to do so, say, with the words of a governmental constitution. Theological relativism paved the way for moral relativism. Moral relativism paved the way for the triumph of positivism and deconstructionism as normative in the realm of theology and that of law and popular culture.

(9) The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ as it was exercised by His true Church in the Middle Ages by the Protestant concept of the separation of Church and State is what gave rise to royal absolutism in Europe in the immediate aftermath of Luther's handiwork. Indeed, as I have noted any number of times before, it is arguably the case that the conditions that bred resentment on the part of colonists in English America prior to 1776 might never have developed if England had remained a Catholic nation. The monarchy would have been subject in the Eighteenth Century to same constraints as it had in the Tenth or Eleventh Centuries, namely, that kings and queens would have continued to understand that the Church reserved unto herself the right to interpose herself in the event that rulers had done things-or proposed to do things-that were contrary to the binding precepts of the Divine positive law and the natural law and/or were injurious of the cause of the sanctification and salvation of the souls of their subjects. The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ deposited power first of all in the hands of monarchs eager to be rid of the "interference" of the Church and ultimately in the hands of whoever happened to hold the reins of governmental power in the modern "democratic" state. Despotism has been the result in both cases

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TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
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To: ksen
Be truthful, you have at least most 312 30 years to go before your church has lasted 2,000 years.

Fixed.
241 posted on 09/30/2003 6:53:42 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (Scratch an evangelical long enough and you'll uncover a heretic or even a blasphemer.)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I actually saw an infomercial by some huckster selling holy oil that you pour in each corner of your house and say some prayer, and God gives you wealth.

And they talk about us with our talismans and medallions and "good luck charms."
242 posted on 09/30/2003 6:55:29 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (Scratch an evangelical long enough and you'll uncover a heretic or even a blasphemer.)
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To: Havoc
"She's dead."

LOL!!! She's not dead chum! I know you protestants have this perspective of deathly finality, but the saints aren't dead! You've missed the whole point of Christianity!

What do you think that Jesus guy was all about then?

He didn't come down to invent kosher fortune cookies ya know?

How you getting on with Isaiah - did you find it yet?
243 posted on 09/30/2003 6:55:44 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: RnMomof7
I would like to see their biblical teachings to support prayer to Mary saints,

"Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." (St. Luke 1.48)

"So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance." (St. Luke 15.10)

"Now the vision was in this manner. Onias, who had been high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in his looks, gentle in his manners, and graceful in speech, and who from a child was exercised in virtues holding up his hands, prayed for all the people of the Jews: After this there appeared also another man, admirable for age, and glory, and environed with great beauty and majesty: Then Onias answering, said: This is a lover of his brethren, and of the people of Israel: this is he that prayeth much for the people, and for all the holy city, Jeremias, the prophet of God." (2 Maccabees 15.12-14)

Mary as Co redeemer

"And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts thoughts may be revealed." (St. Luke 2.35)

indulgences

"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." (St. Matthew 16.19)

etc.

What else?

244 posted on 09/30/2003 7:03:07 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Ex-Wretch
Praise of Mary and the Saints and Martyrs is praise of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ who made them worthy of praise. It is not deflected from Christ, but glorifies Him.

The Son of God is wonderful in His saints.
245 posted on 09/30/2003 7:05:24 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Wrigley
Then some of the RCs here are using thrir own personal interpretation of the Council of Trent. I've seen it said that it only applied to those who were alive when it was pronounced and that it isn't in effect anymore.

Paraphrasing St. Athanasius - the word of the Lord at the Council of Trent stands forever.

246 posted on 09/30/2003 7:07:56 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: RnMomof7
Lite unlike Rome that demanded conversion of all the people in a captured lands I would point out that the constitution of the United States was written by Protestants

Your claiming of those Deists as Protestants proves my point that Protestantism doesn't really care what a man believes, and certainly not if he believes in Christ or not, so long as it is not Catholicism.

247 posted on 09/30/2003 7:10:10 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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Comment #248 Removed by Moderator

To: Conservative til I die
And I made it clear you are a heratic, but you ran away...
249 posted on 09/30/2003 7:12:43 PM PDT by Gamecock (Paul was a Calvinist!)
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To: RnMomof7
Pssssss Protestants use that creed.

Read it more carefully. I don't think you do. Are you thinking of the Nicene-Constantinopalitan Creed?

250 posted on 09/30/2003 7:12:43 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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Comment #251 Removed by Moderator

Comment #252 Removed by Moderator

To: Hermann the Cherusker
There are no "sacrements" mentioned in scripture. There are plenty of requirements in scripture; but, no sacrements.
That's a Catholic invention. Secondarily, to be technically accurate, Christianity has no sacrificial system - it doesn't exist. Christianity exists because of ONE sacrifice that preceeded it. There has been no need for one since that one was finished. That happened over 2000 years ago. If you have a sacrificial system, you already admit you cannot be Christian because none exists in Christianity.

There is no exclusive priesthood in Christianity either. Jesus died to make us all "kings and priests" a necessity since we may all approach God on our own and seek him directly with no middle man to interfere. There are roles to be played within Christianity; but the Minister is no more a priest than those he ministers to so long as they are all christian.

That's two shot down specifically. The sacrements generally pervert scripture as much in what they cause as in what they get wrong. There is no ritual that I'm aware of mentioned in the entire New testament that is required to be a Christian. There are actions that are required. They are three - You must 1) believe with your heart and confess with your mouth to be born again (Paul specifically states this). 2) Per Jesus in Mark 16:15-18 you must be born again (saved - as paul said) and baptized in the Holy spirit. 3) John 10 and Romans 8 you must follow Christ in the Holy Spirit.

That's it. If you can do that, nothing else matters because Christ won't lead you into Sin. If you're walking in sin, you aren't following Christ. And your fruits will bear out which is the case. The same is true for the church as a whole. It's fruits will bear it out. If you want an examination of that - you should give up while you're ahead. Christ defined the fruits that would follow both his followers individually and as a whole. On those marks, your church fails so miserably it had to make up it's own definition of the church. What you are stating above is philosophy, not scripture. Sorry.
253 posted on 09/30/2003 7:13:15 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Gamecock
Here is what I don't understand about the Mary thing. If she herself was pure and Holy, like her Son, who were her parents?

St. Anna and St. Joachim.

254 posted on 09/30/2003 7:16:01 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I know you believe that. I know from what I've seen, other RC do not.
255 posted on 09/30/2003 7:18:19 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Havoc
"There are no "sacrements" mentioned in scripture."

You are incredibly brave to post such ignorant nonsense around here - do you even know what "sacrament" means in English?
256 posted on 09/30/2003 7:19:41 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Conservative til I die
I think this might be the last time I try to instuct heretics via an online forum...ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE. I've got an idea: Let's see how longwinded we can get by quoting everything under the moon in Scripture that has even the slightest semblance to the erroneous point we're trying to make and hope to wear out our opponent through eye fatigue. Ridiculous. If half the people posting here today weren't reactionary and illogical in their approach to so-called "Christianity," perhaps the peace of Christ might truly be with them. Pray that they might be led to the True Faith through the grace of God, as electronic messaging proselytization obviously isn't working.
257 posted on 09/30/2003 7:21:29 PM PDT by Fifthmark
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Comment #258 Removed by Moderator

To: drstevej
You can smile at my arrogance if I can smile at your humility:

I am a man of noble character, a saint!

259 posted on 09/30/2003 7:32:09 PM PDT by Fifthmark
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To: ksen
Be truthful, you have at least 312 years to go before your church has lasted 2,000 years.

Wherever the Bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. (St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyraens, 8.2, circa AD 110)

When finally [Polycarp] had finished his prayer, in which he remembered everyone with whom he had ever been acquainted, the small and the great, the reknowned and the unknown, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world ... And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. ... Now with the Apostles and all the just he is glorifying God and the Father Almighty, and he is blessing Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of our souls, the Helmsman of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world. (Martyrdom of St. Polycarp, 8.1, 16.2, 19.1, AD 155/157)

We say therefore, that in substance, in concept, in origin and in eminence, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does into the unity of the one faith which results from the familiar covenants,- or rather, from the one covenant in different times, by the will of the one God and through the one Lord,- those already chosen, those predestined by God who knew before the foundation of the world that they would be just. (St. Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis, 7.17.107.3, AD 202)

Entire Book - St. Cyprian of Carthage, The Unity of the Catholic Church, AD 251/256

Methinks you are off just a few hundred years in your dating of the origin of our Church.

260 posted on 09/30/2003 7:32:29 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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