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To: Flying Circus
There is a lot of evidence for what Christ looked like. There is a uniformity in icons from the early church depicting the face of Christ. The is the image seen from the Veronica.

That is only evidence of the uniformity of some of the images, and does not address their accuracy.

There is the image seen on the Shroud of Turin. The amazing thing is that all of these images are consistent in the details of the face they show.

Given the techniques at the time and the extremely limited number of artists, I find it not quite as amazing as perhaps you do.

Why does the shroud not have validity to your mind? If it is a forgery, it is one of the most amazing in history.

It is inconclusive as to who, if anyone, is represented by that image.

Why do you find it difficult to believe that the face of Jesus Christ, who we worship as God, would have been preserved and carried down through the centuries so that we may know it today?

See above.

36 posted on 09/24/2003 11:08:18 AM PDT by Pahuanui (When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud)
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To: Pahuanui
Given the techniques at the time and the extremely limited number of artists, I find it not quite as amazing as perhaps you do.

The early church quickly grew to thousands and spread throughout the Roman empire carried by the apostles and disciples who knew Jesus. They knew what he looked like. Icons, not limited by geography or by artist, appear with very similar images depicting Jesus. The common thread between these people is the Church who preserves and passes on the teachings of Christ.

These were not limited numbers of artists. These were people throughout the middle eastern world.

It is inconclusive as to who, if anyone, is represented by that image.

As there anyone else in history who is recorded as having the combination of scourging, being crowned with thorns (multiple crowns actually, representing both king and jewish priest), and being nailed to the cross in crucifiction? But also, the face on the shroud is the same as the face on the icons! With this convergence, there is no doubt who is depicted on the shroud.

You still didn't answer as to why you find it hard to believe that an effort was not made to preserve a record of the face of Jesus that could have made it to this day.

42 posted on 09/24/2003 11:47:14 AM PDT by Flying Circus (When the foolish man sees the face of Christ he denies out loud.)
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To: Pahuanui; Flying Circus; Hermann the Cherusker
It is inconclusive as to who, if anyone, is represented by that image.

The following historical profile is provided by the Shroud of Turin Story.

What did Jesus look like? Amazingly, there is no description of Him in the New Testament or in any contemporary source.  Yet, in hundreds of icons, paintings, mosaics, drawings and coins, there is a common quality that enables us to identify Jesus in works of art. Shroud scholar and historian Ian Wilson theorizes that a common set of facial characteristics became the norm following the discovery of the Edessa Cloth concealed in the city's walls in 544 CE. 

Apparent Shroud-inspired images of Christ are noticeable on coins struck in 692 CE during the reign of the Byzantine emperor Justinian II. The distinctive front-facing appearance of Jesus on the Shroud is also found on numerous icons, mosaics and frescos from the sixth century on. The most startling example is the Christ Pantocrator icon at Saint Catherine's Monastery, reliably dated to 550 CE. 


Computerized overlay of the Shroud of Turin facial image and the Christ Pantocrator icon from St. Catherine's Monastery (550 CE). Images were scaled to the same size and shifted horizontally and vertically for alignment. No changes were made in the vertical to horizontal ratios.


Christ Pantocrator, c. 1200 from dome of Church at Cefalu, Sicily. 

In the 1930's, French Shroud scholar Paul Vignon described a series of common characteristics visible in many early artistic depictions of Jesus. The Vignon marking, as they are known, all appear on the Shroud suggesting that it is the source of later pictures of Jesus.
 

Christ Pantocrator, c. 1100 from dome of Church at Daphni, near Athens. Note U at bridge of nose, triangle on nose, raised right eyebrow, uneven hair, owlish eyes. 

If indeed the Shroud was the source for many works of art including icons as early as 550 CE and Byzantine period coins struck during the time of Justinian II (685-711 CE), it is inconceivable that the Shroud is a medieval forgery.

Still in doubt? Read this book.

Review:

Reviewer: annalert from Houston, Texas After reading Antonacci's book, you may well conclude, as I did, that the Shroud of Turin was a gift from God in some ways intended specifically for those of us living in our times. Without today's sophisticated scientific equipment, much of the evidence imprinted on this ancient relic could not be observed, much less understood.

At first I wondered why an ATTORNEY was writing such a book. Then I recalled that, in spite of all the tacky lawyer jokes, it is attorneys who are trained to sift through available evidence and present it in a logical manner. Mark Antonacci has done just that - presented all the evidence in a wonderfully logical manner that even the non-scientific layman can understand. He could not have done a better job of putting the needed references and citations for anyone interested in further study.

In our world of today where we demand to see scientific proof of miracles, we can truly see the finger of God in the results of the scientific study of the Shroud. It is a gift for our times and an humbling experience. Forget what you THINK you know about the Shroud

60 posted on 09/24/2003 4:17:20 PM PDT by NYer (Catholic and living it.)
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