Posted on 09/07/2003 5:03:54 PM PDT by NYer
Obviusly discernment is called for, but I don't fully understand the process nor do I have that gift (sometimes I can tell and sometimes I can't). There are other passages in the bible that blur the issue.
Catholics depend on the church to discern these spirits or manifestations. I used to, but there are a couple that have been approved that I serioualy question, so it's back to square one for me.
I still want to believe that Lourdes and Fatima are true and worthy of belief. Certainly there have been any number of healings at Lourdes and I've also read of one at Fatima. What perplexes me is that evidently even these kinds of healings used to happen in the ancient pagan temples, as evidenced by ex-voto offerings found by archeologists (don't know where I read that, but I did).
That is a beautiful story and I tend to believe you. Of healings, few though they be, most tend to be gradual rather than instantaneous.
As to reporting it, I wouldn't want to put one of my loved ones through that unless it was for a very worthy cause. Witnessing about it, when appropriate, may be the right thing to do.
I ordered lots of Lourdes water in little vials and gave them out to people. Two had cancer and died, but I don't know if they used them. One did but she got hers from somewhere else.
I've had better results on my own with plain old holy water (and simple prayer combined), but when you start looking for or expecting healings you can wind up very disheartened.
A local catholic couple borrowed on their insurance years ago to take their son who had cerebral palsy (he was about 9 or so) to Lourdes. He was not healed, at least in the way one would have hoped. He is still alive and still very handicapped.
The vast majority of people are not healed and it bothers me. Is God, Mary or Jesus stingy? Why only certain ones? I want real answers and not canned answers that don't satisfy. Jesus healed everyone who wanted to be healed and believed in him.
It's very cold water. It would almost shock your system, so I understand.
Yes, they are scrutinize the healings very carefully, for which I'm grateful. The doctors aren't necessarily catholic doctors. Personally, I believe there have probably been a lot more healings that didn't get reported, happened after they got home, etc., etc.
The only one I personally know about was told me by a catholic lady (in a nursing home at the time of the telling) who went there and there was a lady from Quincy, Illinois whose hearing aid didn't work for her. They dipped the hearing aid into the Lourdes water and it worked again. I would rather her deafness would have been healed, but I don't necessarily disdain healing a hearing aid. Maybe I didn't get the story right or maybe the teller (who got a little flaky toward the end) got it confused.
I don't doubt for a minute that healings take place at Lourdes. I do have other doubts about it. At least St. Bernadette was a real person, and her body is incorrupt, but there is no way for common people to really know that it is and she has had to have her face repaired.
Can you copy just the relevant part and post it?
I got ahold of several books about Lourdes, some from the public library, and did my own little study. Very definitely some of those healed were from England. I found one on the net just tonight, Traynor, I think his name was.
In addition to what others have already said, even at Lourdes I think at one point Bernadette saw and/or heard "evil" in the river telling her (or the Immaculate) to leave. When the Blessed Virgin Mary looked in their direction, they left. (Something to that effect anyway).
Also, after St. Bernadette's visions at Lourdes, there were many claims of "visions" from others at the Grotto. Some were sure that they were seeing evil spirits "dressed in light". In any event, the Bishop only approved St. Bernadette's experiences as worthy of belief.
I don't recall ever seeing a painting of the evil one described and dictated to an artist by a visionary.
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Okay, I give up. ?? What's the riddle to be answered here?
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