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To: american colleen; ninenot
Why couldn't the Tridentine flourish (or not) right along with the NO?

The Novus Ordo is the normative Mass of the Latin Rite. Period. The Tridentine Mass is an exception, and will always be an exception.

A parish community divided by liturgy will be divided in other ways as well, since the Mass is the central unifying celebration of that parish.

That's why I've come to the conclusion there is simply no way to bring the two together.

What about daily Mass? Are ardent devotees of the Tridentine not going to demand, and have a right to, a daily low mass?

No. There has to be a separate rite, with all of its own celebrations, liturgies, and parishes. Then we'll see how genuine the Ferraras, and Woods, and Seattle Catholics' and Latin Mass Magazines' really are.

Do they want to build their own communities centered on the Tridentine Mass, or is their real objective to destroy the Novus Ordo?

The best thing for Catholic unity that could possibly happen, IMO, is to drive THE REMNANT and its clones out of business by giving them their own Rite, bishops, and clergy so that they could worship in the way they want to. Somehow, I suspect they would continue to troll the Latin Rite, however, sniping, and griping, and complaining of the Novus Ordos' very existence.

13 posted on 08/30/2003 1:15:20 PM PDT by sinkspur (How about rescuing a Bichon Frise? He'll love you forever!!!!)
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To: sinkspur
From Catholiccitizens.org today...

More Liturgical Mumbo-Jumbo from Vatican: Cardinal Sodano Proposes to Relaunch Reforms of Vatican II During Liturgical Week. Desperation or Inspiration?

Source: 8/30/2003 1:59:00 PM - Zenit.org

Zenit reports today, "Four decades after the liturgical reform carried out by the Second Vatican Council, it is right to examine the way it has been implemented, in order to relaunch it, says Cardinal Angelo Sodano." Huh? Did he say "relaunch?." We barely survived the first wave.

With vocations at an all time low, scandals, fewer than one of four Catholics attending Mass, and 70% of all Catholics believing the Eucharist is "symbolic," we couldn't agree more that the Liturgical trainwreck of Novus Orde be "rexamined."

Sodano's solution? Obviuosly, Catholics don't get it, so it's time to "relaunch" the reforms. This is like Coke deciding to relaunch "New Coke" (which was a classic marketing disaster) because consumers just didn't get it the first time around.

Anyone who suspsects that "conservatives" are in control of the Vatican is kidding themselves...

14 posted on 08/30/2003 1:44:25 PM PDT by boromeo
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To: sinkspur
The problem is that the New Mass but the way it has been used. It has, in fact, been used much as Anglicans have used the Book of Common Prayer to suit the theology of the particular parish. This affects everything, including the furnishing of the individual church. One can tell immediately the views of an English parish just by going inside. Unfortunately, one can decide the same thing by walking into a Catholic church today and if not, then certainly as mass procedes.
17 posted on 08/30/2003 2:43:46 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: sinkspur
I don't agree with your pessimism. You started out OK in your statement but unravelled into the personal comments-questioning the 'genuineness' of traditionalists, etc. If we had parishes that offered only the TLM we would all be happy(including you). We could live parallel spiritual lives and not have to confront each other continuously with our MUTUAL distrust. We would still be united in Christ, just worship differently. Unfortunately, pride on the part of the clerical caste prevents such common sense movement.
21 posted on 08/30/2003 3:14:20 PM PDT by sydney smith
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To: sinkspur
The Novus Ordo is the normative Mass of the Latin Rite. Period. The Tridentine Mass is an exception, and will always be an exception.

The Church tossed out the only "normative Mass of the Latin Rite" (that would be that pesky "exception" you speak of) that had ever existed once already within your own lifetime in favor of something else it made up on the spot. Why this instills you with some notion of permanence is truly beyond me.

The thing troubling the Novus Ordo now is that it's spinning apart amidst its own innovation. Going from parish to parish within my own diocese is frequently like visiting another denomination. Sure there are rubrics, but they're not really enforced. Those who hold to the Novus Ordo most fervently are those who cherish innovation and iconoclasm, and that includes almost every bishop. Not the stuff for creating permanence or a "normative" anything.

The first generation to observe the Novus Ordo is still living, and the thing is obviously experiencing serious doubt. It may well die in its cradle.

68 posted on 08/30/2003 9:46:11 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: sinkspur
"The Novus Ordo is the normative Mass of the Latin Rite. Period. The Tridentine Mass is an exception, and will always be an exception."

Judging by the rapidly changing norms of this modern Catholic Church, nobody knows anymore what the "normative Mass" will be in the future. When the Church speeds from the Latin Tridentine Mass to this watered down, diluted insult to Heaven called the Novus Ordo almost overnight, who knows what it will look like ten years from now? Certainly not you or I.

Furthermore, the Novus Ordo as it's said today barely resembles the Mass of Paul VI, which was promulgated partly in Latin and with the words "pro multis", (for many), in the Consecration. The fruits of Vatican II are many, with the most obvious being the Catholic Church living in a state of flux and confusion.

There is nothing to fear from the Latin Tridentine Mass, unless you have grown accustomed to watching women in halter tops and shorts distributing Holy Communion and watching the ushers bring up a big basket of money and plop it on the Holy Altar to please God. Have you taken a look around lately at the Novus Ordo Church? The clergy is infested with homosexual perverts from top to bottom and is imploding from within from its own sinfulness. Maybe it's the Hula Mass that turns you on?

136 posted on 09/01/2003 1:28:36 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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