When Worlds Collide! RadTraddyLand Meets St. Blogs - Priest defends strange Popcak comments

http://www.thrownback.blogspot.com/2003_08_17_thrownback_archive.html#106144691180028909 ^ | August 20, 2003 | Fr. Rob Johansen

[Diago]

This whole thing is actually heartbreaking. Imagine a recent convert-mom with teenage kids reading through this after seeing Popcak on EWTN or hearing him on the radio. She stumbles upon this passage:

"You will have to decide whether having boys record their sister's or mother's temperatures is an option for your family, but as long as the person whose chart it is (the mother or sister) is not terribly opposed to the idea (you really have to respect her opinion on this), I feel favorably toward the idea because it decreases the chances that your young teens will eroticize their sexuality."

The poor woman is liable to think that this craziness actually represents Catholicism. You will have to decide whether having boys record their sister's or mother's temperatures is an option for your family... Popcak actually makes it sound as if it is an issue all Catholic families address.

"Well, Martha, Patrick turns 14 this year. Do you think we should have him chart Margaret this year?"

This is NOT a conversation Catholic families I know HAVE EVER HAD. This bizzarre S*** will scare potential converts off permanently.

This guy is nuts. Nuts. Like you., i read it to my wife and she said "creepy." If this guys was just a DRE in Toledo, we could ignore it. But he is on EWTN and constantly engaged in self-promotion. Scary.

[Maximilian]

This was posted by a priest? What is the priesthood coming to?

Now that I think of it, Fr. Rob Johanssen, wasn't he the priest who was attacking Michael Rose? I thought his bishop shut down his blog before he got sued for libel.

[sinkspur]

Now that I think of it, Fr. Rob Johanssen, wasn't he the priest who was attacking Michael Rose?

Michael Rose, with Deal Hudson, is on the board that sponsors Popcak.

[Desdemona]

Well, truthfully, I said on the thread that I thought going into detail with teenagers about NFP was strange.

Going into detail at that age in and of itself isn't strange. I knew all about it in 7th grade more or less because I babysat at a house where the parents were instructors and I heard the spiel one night when they were teaching. Didn't bug me then, and didn't in 9th and 10th grade when we learned it in school - from priest, no less.

What's creepy and definitely disgusting is the entire notion that parents would ask their kids to do it and, even worse, have brothers read their sisters' charts. My brothers would have given my parents some of the worst looks if that was even suggested. Some things just weren't discussed.

[Maximilian]

Allow me to introduce you to my good friends Pete Vere and Shawn McElhinney, two quite "Traditionalist" types whom I am quite happy to call friends.

This is actually what started the whole discussion -- when I pointed out that in another thread posted by Diago these guys were claiming to be traditionalists when they are not; they are anti-traditionalists. Pete Vere seems to be making a career out of attacking traditionalists. The other 2 only do it for fun on an amateur basis, apparently.

Because they don't go around looking to drum fellow Catholics out of the Church for using the wrong buzzwords

Seems to me that this is precisely what they spend their time doing. Does anyone else besides me see the irony of someone having blogs named "spastic sphincter" and "lidless eye" while at the same time trying to put on an attitude of wounded innocence?

[TradicalRC]

Wow, it's like having a glimpse into Catholic hell.

[Maximilian]

Michael Rose, with Deal Hudson, is on the board that sponsors Popcak.

Rose and Hudson were both on the board of Catholic Citizens of Illinois that posted the Popcak article on their website. This was an article exposing the weirdness of Popcak, not sponsoring him.

[sinkspur]

This was an article exposing the weirdness of Popcak, not sponsoring him.

OK. I misunderstood.

[Maximilian]

On the other hand, this is actually very reassuring. If you thought that your contributions were just dropping into the ether unheard and with no impact on the world, a response like this makes it clear that your reactions to these threads can have some impact.

[Maximilian]

OK. I misunderstood.

I had the same misunderstanding at first when this was posted on the previous thread.

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

Obviously, Mr. Popcak was just asking for it when he made those comments, but I think you all are WAY over-reacting. What do y'all think about Mother Theresa, who taught everyone she could NFP--right there on the streets? When you learn NFP, whether through the Billings Method or sympto-thermal, etc., you cannot help but have the most profound respect for the sex act, and the sheer miracle that the creation of ANY life is!

[Maximilian]

Mr. Popcak was just asking for it when he made those comments, but I think you all are WAY over-reacting.

You may be right, but did you read the original article regarding Popcak? It was more than a couple of comments. Here is the link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/966863/posts

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

No, Diago, what's HEART BREAKING is nearly half of the Catholics who receive Our Lord in Holy Communion are C-O-N-T-R-A-C-E-P-T-I-N-G!!!!

If you want to go back to a key slippery slope in our history, the Episcopalian conference (forgot the name of it) in 1928-29 that decided contraception was okay in extreme circumstances was the beginning of what we have today. Up until that point, every Christian denomination had condemned ANY form of birth control as Onanism. So, while all the Christians were being "good, modest and upright", by not going into all the gory details, their children and grandchildren were learning all about contracepting from the enemies of life.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I was the first one to make the incest comment. I guess I am famous.

These 'gentlemen' certainly are obsessed with us. Interesting. Have they signed up? I'd have much more respect for the lot of them if they came here to debate us instead of hiding over there on their own little blogs like spineless cowards.

I've been a Registered Nurse for over 14 years. Most of my experience is in pediatrics: psych and ER. I have Master's level credits towards a Marriage and Family Therapy degree in addition to extensive self-study and my own personal work. If Popcak and friends want to come over here and debate me fair and square regarding the behaviors he advocates, I'm ready and willing.

Consider this your invitation gentlemen.

[sitetest]

Dear old and tired,

My wife has read articles by this fellow, and is rather shocked by this stuff cited here. She says he's usually quite orthodox, even a bit stuffy.

I don't really understand what's going on.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear GTM,

"Obviously, Mr. Popcak was just asking for it when he made those comments, but I think you all are WAY over-reacting. What do y'all think about Mother Theresa, who taught everyone she could NFP--right there on the streets? When you learn NFP, whether through the Billings Method or sympto-thermal, etc., you cannot help but have the most profound respect for the sex act, and the sheer miracle that the creation of ANY life is! "

Hey, I think NFP is real cool, too. But if you were to ask me at, say, 15, to chart my sister, I'd have likely either run screaming in terror, or beaten the daylights out of you. We are talking about WAY weird and creepy.

And the thought of one of my sons charting my wife...

It leaves me speechless.

I remember being taught that a husband and wife doing NFP together creates more intimacy between husband and wife, and deepens the marital bond.

So why on God's green earth would I want my SON to engage in such marital intimacy-inducing behavior with his SISTER or his MOTHER????

Give me a break!

Sorry, I just can't get from here to there. It seems to be to be gross, perverted, immoral, bizarre, and things to which I can't even give names.


sitetest

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

I went and read it. I'll admit he comes off as a "modernist" (from reading the definition), but what everyone here is arguing about is something that SHOULD BE DISCUSSED by ALL Catholics. I spent 10 years doing pro-life work. I learned quickly the origination of the abortion mindset--the contracepting mentality that says, "Sex is for enjoyment, not babies".

To give you my own personal story--I'm 37, my mother is 65. 15 years ago, when my sister got married, I gave her an NFP book at her bridal shower. My mother later called to chastise me for giving her something like that(after assuring my sister I was out of line.) She said it was none of my business. My mother used rhythm, and was in NO WAY for any birth control, as it is against Church Teaching. She just thought I was being "immodest" by giving that to her. I later discovered my sister was on the pill. And imagine how I felt when I went to the hospital on the joyous occasion of the birth of her 3rd child, only to learn that she was being prepped for a tubal ligation.

When everyone refuses to discuss real, moral alternatives to contracepting, where does it leave the nominal Catholics?? I guess they'll be left to suffer the consequences of doing things the "worldly" way.

[Diago]

This strange response from Father Johansen has to be somewhat of a vindication for Michael Rose. From reading his post, this priest is almost as strange as Popcak. It is also a dishonest response.

Every Catholic I have talked to thinks Popcak words are creepy - - not just traditionalists. My mother would likely vomit if I mentioned this to her and she has not been to a Latin Mass in years. As Al pointes out, Rod Dreher's response was "ICK!" Sinkspur similarly sees these comments as un-Catholic and not worth of a defense.

Mark Shea saught to deflect attention from Popcak's strangeness by trying to pin this thing on the traditionalists. Father "Rob" followed suit.

But make no mistake, if I quoted Popcak's comments to all twenty Catholic couples on my block, each and every one of them would laugh in my face. And only half of them even attend Mass on Sunday, not quite radtrads.

[dsc]

"When everyone refuses to discuss real, moral alternatives to contracepting, where does it leave the nominal Catholics?"

Hey, you want to have adults discussing NFP in an appropriate context and forum, GREAT!

You want to talk about involving adolescents...

I'll go with EEEEEWWWWWW.

[sockmonkey]

I see that now Popcak has explained his charting comment on Shea's Blogspot.
He mentions Love and Responsibility. I read that book, and I didn't come away with the conclusion that Popcak did.
As a Mother, and a former child, I find the whole making charting a family affair pretty creepy.
I am assuming he has never mentioned this idea on EWTN radio or television. I certainly couldn't see this particular idea translating into: "Oh, that's such a great idea. I'm going to send EWTN a big fat donation right after I tell Johnny and Suzie to get a notebook and a thermometer."