An Orthodox Christian View of Non-Christian Religions

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America ^

[MarMema]

Orthodox emphasis on the creation of the human person in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26) means that the personhood of each human being is indelibly imprinted with God's image. And it follows that, carrying God's image, each person has access to revelation and salvation.

Come play.

[MarMema]

See my quote to OP above.

[MarMema]

I'll leave it to others to judge God's justice and mercy

And all the EO church does is leave plenty of room for God to do as He will, while confessing at the same time that we humans are too weak and lacking in knowledge to comprehend the love and mercy God has for us all.

Too much Augustine contamination in western Christianity has given you a much too bleak outlook for God's children.
Scripture says quite plainly "God is love". Where else does it say what God *is*, in the Bible? Just curious.

[MarMema]

Our Lord paid the price for us

I don't know about paying a price, but it was certainly an act of love.

God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him. (1 Jn 4:9)

[OldCorps]

you are correct. Perhaps Pat. Bart. is spouting some revisionist, ecuminist claptrap. The Orthodox perspective is: Salvation is found within the Church. There are many decisions of ecumenical councils which uphold this view. Pat. Bart is just trying to have his cake and eat it too.

[MarMema]

and to say that the plain meaning of scripture doesn't really mean what it so plainly says over and over and over...

I'm hoping to pick on you some here. :-)

"the greatest virtue is love" (I Corinthians 13:13)

Love is the "fulfilling of the law" of God. (Romans 13:10)

"Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God.

He who does not love does not know God; for God is love...."

"No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and His love is perfected in us".

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love."
(I John 4:7-19)

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing."

"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

The EO church follows Holy Scripture because in our pursuit of love, we believe and hope all things, even that those who have not yet heard of Christ can be saved. Not those who have rejected Christ, perhaps, or those who are evil, but those who were not given a chance or were led astray without the Grace to overcome their straying.

"Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

[MarMema]

methinks Patriarch Bartholomew is overdue for a vacation, personally....:-)

[George W. Bush]

Too much Augustine contamination in western Christianity has given you a much too bleak outlook for God's children. Scripture says quite plainly "God is love". Where else does it say what God *is*, in the Bible? Just curious.

Scripture teaches plainly that without the redemptive work of Christ in us, we are children of the devil.

The article is not truthful about this. Only those who are saved are children of God. Perhaps you don't believe me so I'll offer a quotation from an expert in these matters whose reputation is even more highly regarded than the author of this article:

"Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God." (John 8:42-47 RSV)

I guess that people will just have to choose which writers and authorities they wish to believe.

Among men, children of God, i.e. those who are in Christ, go to heaven. Children of the devil go to hell.

There is a great deal of this ecumenical all-dogs-go-to-heaven nonsense being peddled as Christian teaching. It sounds good, tastes good, feels good, appeals to the highest and noblest sentiments of man, no doubt. But it is antiscriptural and it is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus.

This is a kind of theological political correctness which is seeping into many churches. I think very few have been immune to it. But that doesn't mean that it's true. It will kill off missionary work. It does keep people from witnessing for Christ, the Roman church abandoning the evangelization of Jews being the prime example in recent years. And if Jews don't need Christ just like anyone else, Jesus and the apostles wasted most of their time.

[George W. Bush]

I'm hoping to pick on you some here. :-)

All your quotes are true enough.

"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

Probably one of the sweetest and most abused verses in scripture. But merely because we are to 'hope all things' does not mean that God intends His children to be gullible or ignorant. We are given scripture to guide us in these matters.

Nowhere in New Testament scripture are we given any hope for those who die outside of Christ. Nowhere.

And that's good enough for me.

If you believe that Christ is not necessary for salvation, that anyone who follows natural law and leads a 'good life' will be saved, then His suffering upon the cross was of no worth.

This salvation-of-all-good-persons teaching is an ancient religion. But it's not Christian.

[George W. Bush]

I don't know about paying a price, but it was certainly an act of love.

I'm pretty comfortable with my assertion.

There is a reason He is so often depicted as our Shepherd and we as His flock.

Yes, if we are children of God, He owns us. And we were bought with His blood.

In a larger sense, all of creation is the personal property of God. All that we've ever seen or known is His creation and property. But merely because this is true of all men (and not merely the saved) doesn't mean that everyone (or everyone who appears to be 'good' by worldly standards) is a child of God.

He will separate the wheat from the chaff. And the chaff will go into the fire. This is God's disposition of His personal property.

What? You didn't know that God has property rights on a scale we can scarcely imagine, let alone perceive?

[MarMema]

If you believe that Christ is not necessary for salvation, that anyone who follows natural law and leads a 'good life' will be saved, then His suffering upon the cross was of no worth.

I believe that God's love and mercy are beyond our comprehension and therefore beyond our predictions.

[RussianConservative]

In another earlier thread, peoples here say that God's name attached to wars perfectly good....gad so far from Orthodox mentality.

[RussianConservative]

Salvation found through relationship with Christ, Church is guide and teacher, that why we don't have Pope or steeples which to us is a priest/reverand what ever between congragation and God.

[RussianConservative]

With strictist interpretation of words, then how protestants not accept that all Jews damned? After all they reject Christ....or is that exception since it not fit new political views? Can not have it both ways, get cake but you can't enjoy it.

[RussianConservative]

Nowhere in New Testament scripture are we given any hope for those who die outside of Christ

So you accept Jews are damned? I not say this in racism of Jews I'm just puzzled by schizophrenic protestant view...all peoples without explicit prayer in Christ damned, well all except Jews...why? By your views they should all be damned.

[RussianConservative]

Why Latins and their protestant offspring always try to put God in exact legal boundry? They not accept holy mysteries but try to human logic way through what human logic insignificant to understand. Why they not able to accept the Holy Mysteries for what are.

[MarMema]

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

[MarMema]

With much love and humility, are you then saying that you are most definitely saved? Because it seems to me like you are taking an act of God and making it your own "work", that of accepting Christ.
Which would make you a front-row participant in your own salvation, if not the very reason for it.

My preference is to leave God's work up to God.

[MarMema]

But those in Orthodox clergy tell them "that's ok, no need to believe in Christ, your soul will be fine."

This is a great distortion of what the Orthodox church teaches.