Skip to comments.
Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism
Response to: Calvinism- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Geneva ^
| August 13, 2003
| OP
Posted on 08/13/2003 6:04:31 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism
Introduction: the Anti-Predestinarian Syllogism
In debates between Reformation Protestants and Arminian neo-Protestants, it is common for Arminians to invoke a peculiar and logically-fallacious syllogism in an effort to deflect attention from the evidentiary insurmountability of the Biblical Case for Reformation Protestantism. This syllogism is constructed in the form of a classic ad hominem Guilt-by-Association argument, according to the following general Form:
- Assertion 1: One of the principal advovates of Reformation Protestantism, John Calvin of Geneva, "murdered" one Michael Servetus on the charge of Blasphemy, etc.
- Assertion 2: John Calvin never Repented this "murder".
- Assertion 3: Ergo, John Calvin was not Christian; therefore his doctrines were not Christian; therefore his doctrines must be rejected.
Needless to say, it makes little impression upon the Arminian neo-Protestant that the Doctrines of Absolute Predestination were believed by Godly Christians for centuries before Calvin (i.e., 10th-15th Century Waldensian CredoBaptists, the 6th-9th Century Presbyters of Iona, the 4th-10th Century Ambrosian Catholics, Saint Augustine, the Apostles, Jesus Christ Himself, etc). What matters is the argumentative usefulness of being able to lay this charge to the particular account of John Calvin, and thus evade the theological defeat of the UnBiblical Arminian systematic heresy by re-framing the debate as a mud-throwing competition directed against one particular Reformer.
Now, before we proceed, we should observe: the Arminian neo-Protestant assertions against Calvin are not borne out by the Facts of History in the first place.
Uncomfortable Facts about Michael Servetus
Michael Servetus was:
A Criminal Foreign Insurrectionist,
Preaching that Trinitarians should be murderously liquidated as a Class,
Who was warned for weeks to leave Geneva, and refused,
Seeking the Overthrow of the Genevan Constitution,
In Conspiracy with Insurrectionist Elements within Geneva,
Towards a Re-Establishment of the sort of Anti-Trinitarian Reich,
Which had so bloodily and viciously terrorized Munster not long before.
In point of History, Michael Servetus was executed as a matter of State Punishment, as sentenced by the Civil Council of Geneva which itself was controlled at the time by Calvins political enemies, the Libertines. In fact, as the Libertine Party itself rejected Calvins doctrine of Predestination, it is more historically accurate to say that Servetus was killed by the Anti-Predestinarian protestants, than to attribute the deed to Calvin (who at any rate pleaded for a more merciful execution by the Sword, rather than the slow burning-to-death on which the vicious Anti-Predestinarians insisted).
Be that as it may, however, it needs be asked if it is appropriate for Arminian neo-Protestants to employ such a Syllogism against the Reformer John Calvin, is it not equally appropriate to measure by the same standard the heretical Schismatic who, perhaps more than any other single man, was fundamentally responsible for sundering the Godly unity of Reformation Protestantism into a thousand confused and competing sects James Arminius? To that Question we now turn:
Arminius his teachings on Politics, Religion, and the Sword of the State
The State is the Absolute Sovereign over all Natural and Spiritual affairs of Man:The end of the institution of magistracy, is the good of the whole, and of each individual of which it is composed, both an animal [or natural] good, "that they may lead quiet and peaceable lives;" and a spiritual good, that they may live in this world, to God, and may in heaven enjoy that good, to the glory of God who is its author. For since man, according to his two-fold life, (that is, the animal and the spiritual,) stands in need of each kind of good, and is, by nature of the image of God, capable of both kinds; since two collateral powers cannot stand, and since animal good is directed to that which is spiritual, and animal life is subordinate to that which is spiritual, it is unlawful to divide those two benefits, and to separate their joint superintendence, either in reality or by the administration of the supreme authority; for, if the animal life and its good become the only objects of solicitude, such an administration is that of cattle. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, On Magistracy, James Arminius)
All Authority under Heaven, concerning both Natural and Spiritual matters, is concentrated in the Absolute Power of the State
The chief magistrate is not correctly denominated political or secular, because those epithets are opposed to the ecclesiastical and spiritual power. In the hands and at the disposal of the chief magistrate is placed, under God, the supreme and sovereign power of caring and providing for his subjects, and of governing them, with respect to animal and spiritual life. ~~ (Certain Articles, Article 28, On Magistracy, James Arminius)
It is the sole and absolute duty of the State to enforce all Ten Commandments, and to enact all laws both civil and ecclesiastical, and to eradicate all Evil from society.
The matter, of which this administration consists, are the acts necessary to produce that end. These actions, we comprehend in the three following classes: The first is Legislation, under which we also comprise the care of the moral law, according to both tables, and the enacting of subordinate laws with respect to places, times and persons, by which laws, provision may be the better made for the observance of that immovable law, and the various societies, being restricted to certain relations, may be the more correctly governed; that is, ecclesiastical, civil, scholastic and domestic associations. The second contains the vocation to delegated offices or duties, and the oversight of all actions and things which are necessary to the whole society. The third is either the eradication of all evils out of the society, if they be internal, or the warding of them off, if they be external, even with war, if that be necessary, and the safety of society should require it. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, On Magistracy, James Arminius)
All Authority over the Christian Church is concentrated in the Absolute Power of the State
The care of religion has been committed by God to the chief magistrate, more than to priests and to ecclesiastical persons. ~~ (Certain Articles, Article 28, On Magistracy, James Arminius)
Because this power is pre eminent, we assert that every soul is subject to it by divine right, whether he be a layman or a clergyman, a deacon, priest, or bishop, an archbishop, cardinal, or patriarch, or even the Roman pontiff himself; so that it is the duty of every one to obey the commands of the magistrate, to acknowledge his tribunal, to await the sentence, and to submit to the punishment which he may award. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, On Magistracy, James Arminius)
The Utter Subjection of all Human life, whether natural or spiritual, to the Dictates of the Absolute State should be terrified and compelled by the Power of the Sword:
The form is the power itself, according to which these functions themselves are discharged, with an authority that is subject to God alone, and pre-eminently above whatever is human; for this inspires spirit and life, and gives efficacy to these functions. It is enunciated "power by right of the sword," by which the good may be defended, and the bad terrified, restrained and punished, and all men compelled to perform their prescribed duties. To this power, as supreme, belongs the authority of demanding, from those under subjection, tribute, custom, and other burdens. These resemble the sinews, by which the authority and power necessary for these functions, are held together and established. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, On Magistracy, James Arminius)
Phew.... Thank God that America was founded primarily by convinced Calvinists, and not Arminians. Moving along, though, let us now apply the Arminian's Favorite Syllogism -- to Arminius himself.
Arminius at the Bar of the Arminian Syllogism:
- Fact 1: James Arminius, (in addition to being a proto-Stalinist) advocated Murder by the State over religious matters -- the same charge that Arminians lay to the account of John Calvin. (It may be objected that Arminius never actually murdered anyone. Neither did John Calvin, for that matter; but the fact remains that Arminius advocated State-Murder in his mind and heart -- and per Matthew 5, it's the thought that counts as much as the act).
- Fact 2: James Arminius never repented his advocacy of State-Murder; he went to his grave espousing the Absolute Power of the State to compel obedience by the Sword in all matters, natural and spiritual.
- Conclusion: Ergo, James Arminius was not Christian; therefore his doctrines were not Christian; therefore anyone who believes Arminian doctrines, believes Un-Christian Doctrines.
Hmmmm. Howzabout that.
TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 901-920, 921-940, 941-960 ... 981-984 next last
To: Jean Chauvin
Could you please document where I have "acted" as if Arminians aren't Christians? ~ JC
I was actually tempted to ask ctd the same question after he directly accused me. I mean, I go to a church that is full of Arminians fer cryin' out loud. As the only confessing 5-point Calvinist, were ctd's accusation true, then I'd be the only Christian in a church full of tares and chaff with a false teacher.
But, then, I remember that he is unable to understand my posts so I restrained myself.
Your comment here has absolutely ~nothing~ to do with the point it is in response to. ~ JC
Feelings of inadequacy/ intimidation again, perhaps?
Woody.
921
posted on
08/22/2003 6:17:03 AM PDT
by
CCWoody
(Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
To: Jean Chauvin; drstevej
***I think this guy has a real guilt complex!
First he assured us last year that the dance clubs he went to didn't serve alchohol, now he is assuring us that he will be in church on his "long weekend".***
It sounds like a certain amount of guilt caused by legalism. I could care less if he drinks, even the "hard" stuff. And I could care less if he misses a Sunday.
Woody.
922
posted on
08/22/2003 6:24:50 AM PDT
by
CCWoody
(Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
To: connectthedots; CCWoody; Wrigley; Jean Chauvin; RochesterFan; jude24; RnMomof7; ksen; snerkel; ...
***Actually only went dancing once so far this week, but I am taking a long weekend to go to a dance festival; and I will be in church on Sunday.
Last dance festival I went to, I witnesses to three individuals, including two lesbians. Need to go where you can find sinners. ;)
BTW, a drafted a way to use the word 'HUSTLE' as an acrostic to witness to someone. I'll try and find it and email it to you. Maybe you can use it to witness to those sinful dancers. (I know you don't view dancing as a sin)***
Man, I hope you take a break from HUSTLE dancing/witnessing with/to lesbians at the dance festival this weekend and construct you own definition for the two attributes of God:
love
and
justice
that you have avoided providing until now.
Here's a thought, ask those unbelieving lesbians what they believe about the love and justice of God and tell us what they think.
You may find you have a lot in common with them.
Breathlessly awaiting your definition OR theirs.
To: connectthedots; CCWoody; Wrigley; Jean Chauvin; jude24; RnMomof7; ksen; snerkel; drstevej
While the letter certainly was written to Christians, v.15 speaks to all men. What else could 'whosoever' mean? The NIV states 'If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God."v 13,14 talks about 'we' and the 15 transitions to 'anyone'. If the author intended this verse to only apply to 'we' he would have used the word 'we' rather than a different word which the author must have known would convey a different meaning.
Sorry, but you are making too much of the term 'whosoever'. The clause to which you are referring state:
hos ean homologese hoti Iesous estin uious tou theou who if might confess that Jesus is the son of the God
The word translated 'whosoever' is really the definite relative pronoun, hos, about which D. Wallace in "Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics" writes
The definite relative pronoun is hos the indefinite relative pronoun is hostis. These two need to be treated separately as the major exegetical issues are different for each. a. hos
1) Regular Use
Hos is routinely used to link a noun or other substantive to the relative clause, which either describes, clarifies, or restricts the meaning of the noun.
In this case hos is used to refer to the one who makes the acknowledgement. It doesn't say who can or cannot make the acknowledgement but simply that those who do acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
drstevej, you're better trained in Greek than I so please feel free to add your clarifications here...
To: RochesterFan; connectthedots
Your position I believe is well taken as to the greek meaning of whosoever.
To: RochesterFan
In this case hos is used to refer to the one who makes the acknowledgement. It doesn't say who can or cannot make the acknowledgement but simply that those who do acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. I am not a Greek scholar and based on the above explanation, it seems to me that my point is well taken. The verse does not limit its application only to those who are already Christians. It would also support a view that the NIV accurately translates the Greek.
This verse does not support the Calvinist position of Total Depravity. It seems to support the view that man can choose to accept or reject Jesus as Savior. I am not saying that grace and the work of the Holy Spirit does not play a role in the salvation of a man.
To: drstevej
You have my opinon about the love of God.
As for justice; while the OT has many instances of God directing his chosen people to kill people of other nations, the comimg of Jesus Christ expanded God'd covenant to non-Israelites. I don't recall anything in the NT where God has directed the killing of other peoples. More on this after the weekend.
To: Cvengr; connectthedots; CCWoody; drstevej; Wrigley; Frumanchu
Thank you for the correction and in this much we agree A very restrained response, considering that this very well could have been the response he wanted to send:
I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling Arminian! You excrement! You whining hypocritical toadies with your lousy computers and your Bibles and your bleeding Calvinist secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards?!? Well I wouldn't become a Calvinist if you went down on your stinking knees and begged me!
Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure if that was actually the case, but....
(apologies to Monty Python)
928
posted on
08/22/2003 11:23:54 AM PDT
by
nobdysfool
(All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
To: connectthedots
You have my opinon about the love of God. And that would be????
929
posted on
08/22/2003 11:54:45 AM PDT
by
Wrigley
( (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...))
To: nobdysfool; CCWoody; drstevej; Wrigley; Frumanchu
I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling Arminian! You excrement! You whining hypocritical toadies with your lousy computers and your Bibles and your bleeding Calvinist secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards?!? Well I wouldn't become a Calvinist if you went down on your stinking knees and begged me! You know if you're gonna quote me, I'd appreciate it if you'd ping me.
What? Oh.
Nevermind...
To: connectthedots
***You have my opinon about the love of God. ***
Please summarize for me. Thanks.
***As for justice; while the OT has many instances of God directing his chosen people to kill people of other nations, the comimg of Jesus Christ expanded God'd covenant to non-Israelites. I don't recall anything in the NT where God has directed the killing of other peoples. More on this after the weekend.***
Was there a definition of the attribute of God's justice somewhere in this? I missed it.
To: nobdysfool
hehehe!
Let no man say you won't take a dare.
Woody.
932
posted on
08/22/2003 12:19:08 PM PDT
by
CCWoody
(Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
To: CCWoody
Let no man say you won't take a dare.Hehehe....people usually find out sooner or later that I will. I just try not to be irresponsible about it. There's always a way....
933
posted on
08/22/2003 12:30:19 PM PDT
by
nobdysfool
(All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
To: Corin Stormhands; CCWoody; Frumanchu; drstevej
continuation (all conjecture, of course....)
Calvinist 2: We're sorry you feel that way but we did want a civil discussion, interesting though your rantings were.
Arminian: Oh sod the discussion, that's not important. (Dashes forward and kneels in front of them.) But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a Calvinist. Calvinism opens doors. I'd be very quiet, I was a bit on edge just now but if I were a Calvinist I'd sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.
Calvinist 1: (politely) Thank you.
Arminian: ...I've got a second-hand bible.
Calvinist 2: Thank you.
(Arminian hurries to the door but stops...)
Arminian: I nearly got in at Hendon.
Calvinist 1: Thank you.
934
posted on
08/22/2003 12:41:48 PM PDT
by
nobdysfool
(All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
To: nobdysfool
But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a Calvinist. I "post" in your general direction.
To: Corin Stormhands
Your mother was a Catholic, and your father smelt of elderberries....:o)
936
posted on
08/22/2003 12:47:43 PM PDT
by
nobdysfool
(All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
To: Corin Stormhands
No offense meant, I hope you know that....just having some fun...maybe I have too much time on my hands....
937
posted on
08/22/2003 12:52:02 PM PDT
by
nobdysfool
(All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
To: Corin Stormhands; nobdysfool
There's just a kind of humor there that no woman seems to ever get.
Woody.
938
posted on
08/22/2003 1:01:17 PM PDT
by
CCWoody
(Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
To: nobdysfool; CCWoody
Woody turned me into a Calvinist once.
I got better.
To: CCWoody
There's just a kind of humor there that no woman seems to ever get.Their loss.....
940
posted on
08/22/2003 1:02:56 PM PDT
by
nobdysfool
(All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 901-920, 921-940, 941-960 ... 981-984 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson