Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism

Response to: Calvinism- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Geneva ^ | August 13, 2003 | OP

[CCWoody]

Could you please document where I have "acted" as if Arminians aren't Christians? ~ JC

I was actually tempted to ask ctd the same question after he directly accused me. I mean, I go to a church that is full of Arminians fer cryin' out loud. As the only confessing 5-point Calvinist, were ctd's accusation true, then I'd be the only Christian in a church full of tares and chaff with a false teacher.

But, then, I remember that he is unable to understand my posts so I restrained myself.

Your comment here has absolutely ~nothing~ to do with the point it is in response to. ~ JC

Feelings of inadequacy/ intimidation again, perhaps?

Woody.

[CCWoody]

***I think this guy has a real guilt complex!

First he assured us last year that the dance clubs he went to didn't serve alchohol, now he is assuring us that he will be in church on his "long weekend".***

It sounds like a certain amount of guilt caused by legalism. I could care less if he drinks, even the "hard" stuff. And I could care less if he misses a Sunday.

Woody.

[drstevej]

***Actually only went dancing once so far this week, but I am taking a long weekend to go to a dance festival; and I will be in church on Sunday.

Last dance festival I went to, I witnesses to three individuals, including two lesbians. Need to go where you can find sinners. ;)

BTW, a drafted a way to use the word 'HUSTLE' as an acrostic to witness to someone. I'll try and find it and email it to you. Maybe you can use it to witness to those sinful dancers. (I know you don't view dancing as a sin)***

Man, I hope you take a break from HUSTLE dancing/witnessing with/to lesbians at the dance festival this weekend and construct you own definition for the two attributes of God:

love
and
justice

that you have avoided providing until now.

Here's a thought, ask those unbelieving lesbians what they believe about the love and justice of God and tell us what they think.

You may find you have a lot in common with them.

Breathlessly awaiting your definition OR theirs.

[RochesterFan]

While the letter certainly was written to Christians, v.15 speaks to all men. What else could 'whosoever' mean? The NIV states 'If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God."

v 13,14 talks about 'we' and the 15 transitions to 'anyone'. If the author intended this verse to only apply to 'we' he would have used the word 'we' rather than a different word which the author must have known would convey a different meaning.

Sorry, but you are making too much of the term 'whosoever'. The clause to which you are referring state:

hos ean homologese hoti Iesous estin uious tou theou

who if might confess that Jesus is the son of the God

The word translated 'whosoever' is really the definite relative pronoun, hos, about which D. Wallace in "Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics" writes

The definite relative pronoun is hos the indefinite relative pronoun is hostis. These two need to be treated separately as the major exegetical issues are different for each.

a. hos

1) Regular Use

Hos is routinely used to link a noun or other substantive to the relative clause, which either describes, clarifies, or restricts the meaning of the noun.

In this case hos is used to refer to the one who makes the acknowledgement. It doesn't say who can or cannot make the acknowledgement but simply that those who do acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

drstevej, you're better trained in Greek than I so please feel free to add your clarifications here...

[drstevej]

Your position I believe is well taken as to the greek meaning of whosoever.

[connectthedots]

In this case hos is used to refer to the one who makes the acknowledgement. It doesn't say who can or cannot make the acknowledgement but simply that those who do acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

I am not a Greek scholar and based on the above explanation, it seems to me that my point is well taken. The verse does not limit its application only to those who are already Christians. It would also support a view that the NIV accurately translates the Greek.

This verse does not support the Calvinist position of Total Depravity. It seems to support the view that man can choose to accept or reject Jesus as Savior. I am not saying that grace and the work of the Holy Spirit does not play a role in the salvation of a man.

[connectthedots]

You have my opinon about the love of God.

As for justice; while the OT has many instances of God directing his chosen people to kill people of other nations, the comimg of Jesus Christ expanded God'd covenant to non-Israelites. I don't recall anything in the NT where God has directed the killing of other peoples. More on this after the weekend.

[nobdysfool]

Thank you for the correction and in this much we agree

A very restrained response, considering that this very well could have been the response he wanted to send:

I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling Arminian! You excrement! You whining hypocritical toadies with your lousy computers and your Bibles and your bleeding Calvinist secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards?!? Well I wouldn't become a Calvinist if you went down on your stinking knees and begged me!

Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure if that was actually the case, but....

(apologies to Monty Python)

[Wrigley]

You have my opinon about the love of God.

And that would be????

[Corin Stormhands]

I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling Arminian! You excrement! You whining hypocritical toadies with your lousy computers and your Bibles and your bleeding Calvinist secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards?!? Well I wouldn't become a Calvinist if you went down on your stinking knees and begged me!

You know if you're gonna quote me, I'd appreciate it if you'd ping me.

What? Oh.

Nevermind...

[drstevej]

***You have my opinon about the love of God. ***

Please summarize for me. Thanks.

***As for justice; while the OT has many instances of God directing his chosen people to kill people of other nations, the comimg of Jesus Christ expanded God'd covenant to non-Israelites. I don't recall anything in the NT where God has directed the killing of other peoples. More on this after the weekend.***

Was there a definition of the attribute of God's justice somewhere in this? I missed it.

[CCWoody]

hehehe!

Let no man say you won't take a dare.

Woody.

[nobdysfool]

Let no man say you won't take a dare.

Hehehe....people usually find out sooner or later that I will. I just try not to be irresponsible about it. There's always a way....

[nobdysfool]

continuation (all conjecture, of course....)

Calvinist 2: We're sorry you feel that way but we did want a civil discussion, interesting though your rantings were.

Arminian: Oh sod the discussion, that's not important. (Dashes forward and kneels in front of them.) But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a Calvinist. Calvinism opens doors. I'd be very quiet, I was a bit on edge just now but if I were a Calvinist I'd sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.

Calvinist 1: (politely) Thank you.

Arminian: ...I've got a second-hand bible.

Calvinist 2: Thank you.

(Arminian hurries to the door but stops...)

Arminian: I nearly got in at Hendon.

Calvinist 1: Thank you.

[Corin Stormhands]

But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a Calvinist.

I "post" in your general direction.

[nobdysfool]

Your mother was a Catholic, and your father smelt of elderberries....:o)

[nobdysfool]

No offense meant, I hope you know that....just having some fun...maybe I have too much time on my hands....

[CCWoody]

There's just a kind of humor there that no woman seems to ever get.

Woody.

[Corin Stormhands]

Woody turned me into a Calvinist once.

I got better.

[nobdysfool]

There's just a kind of humor there that no woman seems to ever get.

Their loss.....