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Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism
Response to: Calvinism- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Geneva ^ | August 13, 2003 | OP

Posted on 08/13/2003 6:04:31 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian

Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism

Introduction: the Anti-Predestinarian Syllogism

In debates between Reformation Protestants and Arminian neo-Protestants, it is common for Arminians to invoke a peculiar and logically-fallacious syllogism in an effort to deflect attention from the evidentiary insurmountability of the Biblical Case for Reformation Protestantism. This syllogism is constructed in the form of a classic ad hominem Guilt-by-Association argument, according to the following general Form:

Needless to say, it makes little impression upon the Arminian neo-Protestant that the Doctrines of Absolute Predestination were believed by Godly Christians for centuries before Calvin (i.e., 10th-15th Century Waldensian CredoBaptists, the 6th-9th Century Presbyters of Iona, the 4th-10th Century Ambrosian Catholics, Saint Augustine, the Apostles, Jesus Christ Himself, etc). What matters is the argumentative usefulness of being able to lay this charge to the particular account of John Calvin, and thus evade the theological defeat of the UnBiblical Arminian systematic heresy by re-framing the debate as a mud-throwing competition directed against one particular Reformer.

Now, before we proceed, we should observe: the Arminian neo-Protestant assertions against Calvin are not borne out by the Facts of History in the first place.

Uncomfortable Facts about Michael Servetus

Michael Servetus was:

In point of History, Michael Servetus was executed as a matter of State Punishment, as sentenced by the Civil Council of Geneva – which itself was controlled at the time by Calvin’s political enemies, the Libertines. In fact, as the Libertine Party itself rejected Calvin’s doctrine of Predestination, it is more historically accurate to say that Servetus was killed by the Anti-Predestinarian “protestants”, than to attribute the deed to Calvin (who at any rate pleaded for a more merciful execution “by the Sword”, rather than the slow burning-to-death on which the vicious Anti-Predestinarians insisted).

Be that as it may, however, it needs be asked – if it is appropriate for Arminian neo-Protestants to employ such a Syllogism against the Reformer John Calvin, is it not equally appropriate to measure by the same standard the heretical Schismatic who, perhaps more than any other single man, was fundamentally responsible for sundering the Godly unity of Reformation Protestantism into a thousand confused and competing sects – James Arminius? To that Question we now turn:

Arminius – his teachings on Politics, Religion, and the Sword of the State

Phew.... Thank God that America was founded primarily by convinced Calvinists, and not Arminians. Moving along, though, let us now apply the Arminian's Favorite Syllogism -- to Arminius himself.

Arminius at the Bar of the Arminian Syllogism:

Hmmmm. Howzabout that.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Theology
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To: connectthedots; xzins; drstevej
Surely you must know of some aspect of his teaching with which you disagree; of is his theology 'perfect'?

Well, of course as a Wesleyan, I disagree with some aspects of Calvin's teaching.

However, that was not the point of my post. Nor will I be drawn back into the debate.

41 posted on 08/14/2003 8:37:53 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Let's say something really outrageous like, "God's in control and prayer changes things!"
42 posted on 08/14/2003 8:43:41 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
"Every time I think you're out, they pull you back in." 8~)
43 posted on 08/14/2003 9:07:06 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: drstevej
CTD, this is a ludicrous statement. I disagree with Calvin on many points. I know of no Calvinist, including Calvin, who view his views as without error.

I was not referring to you (I've read your church's doctinal statement and found little with which to disagree), but one could hardly dispute the fact that there are those who accept everything Calvin says strictly on faith; i.e., if Calvin said it, it must be true.

Leave your hatred behind.

I don't hate Calvin or Calvinism. I simply think 'Total Depravity' and 'Unconditional Election' as propounded by many Calvinists is not Biblical. I have noted that Calvin was not at the Synod of Dort (he had been dead for many years when that meeting was conducted), so it would not be fair to credit/blame Calvin for its results. I have also stated that many Calvinists seem to have 'out Calvined' Calvin. How is recognizing that some Calvinists have misinterpreted or misconstrued some of Calvin's writing 'hatred'. If anything, it is offering a bit of a defense for Calvin the person and some of his writings.

While I may disagree with Calvin on predestination, and especially unconditional election, at least Calvin admitted that he was troubled by his conclusions concerning predestination as it applies to the eternal salvation or condemnation of individuals. It seems to me that Calvin was not so sure opf himself. How is this exprseeing a 'hatred' for Calvinism?

44 posted on 08/14/2003 9:09:24 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
In debates between Reformation Protestants and Arminian neo-Protestants, it is common for Arminians to invoke a peculiar and logically-fallacious syllogism in an effort to deflect attention from the evidentiary insurmountability of the Biblical Case for Reformation Protestantism.

Huh? My head is still spinning.
45 posted on 08/14/2003 9:12:12 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I am one of the unfettered in terms of the world, but a bondservant of our Lord Jesus Christ.

No allegiance to either Calv/Arm camp BECAUSE I'm not satisfied with either answer at this point.


46 posted on 08/14/2003 9:14:44 AM PDT by xzins
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Besides, what about "God's in control and prayer changes things" is anything you'd disagree with? It was a humorous aside to Corin.
47 posted on 08/14/2003 9:47:07 AM PDT by xzins
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To: Conservative til I die
It's a good thing one doesn't have to accept or understand Calvinism, or Arminianism to be saved. If so, Heaven would be a fairly lonely place. The Gospel message is really pretty simple; so simple even a child can understand it.
48 posted on 08/14/2003 10:33:06 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: connectthedots
That's the truest thing you've said in this entire discussion.

A Calvinist would simply add that if one possesses a true and abiding faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior it is because God graced that person with the gift of faith.

All glory to God.

49 posted on 08/14/2003 10:42:53 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: xzins
I thought my "Godfather" reply was "humorous," too. It must be the sun. I'll do better.

The internet is so amazing. Every day I get lost in its vast accessability.

A wonderful site I came across this morning is...

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/index.html

Listed on the church's website is Boettner's "Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" broken down into chapters.

It makes for wonderful reading; very clarifying and edifying on a hot summer afternoon.

After all, what is there to do in New Jersey but wish you were back home?
50 posted on 08/14/2003 10:54:06 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
right now i'm fast into trying to repair their computer. It shuts down on its own with a 60 second warning....and some blurb about rpc (remote procedure call)

I think it's the current worm.

I tried updating their AV software and it'll get near the end of installing and I get a "rolling back" indicator on the message bar and everything disappears.

Gosh, I wish I was a computer geek.

51 posted on 08/14/2003 11:02:52 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Well, take comfort in knowing you're just a regular geek.
52 posted on 08/14/2003 11:03:43 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: xzins; Dr. Eckleburg
I think it's the current worm.

From your description, it sounds like it. I'm not geeky enough to tell you how to fix it tho.

Dr. E - if we're in agreement regarding New Jersey, can we really be that far off in our theology? ;-)

53 posted on 08/14/2003 11:07:26 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
That's the truest thing you've said in this entire discussion.

I have been consistent about that statement throughout all these threads.

A Calvinist would simply add that if one possesses a true and abiding faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior it is because God graced that person with the gift of faith.

Why 'add'? I have a difficult time understanding that faith is a particular gift to certain individuals. The fact is everyone has faith. Much of our everyday activity would be difficult if not impossible without faith. If you didn't have faith that you would not get into an accident on your way to work, would you go? What about getting on an airplane; that certainly requires some faith that you will arrive safely at your destination, doesn't it?

It cannot be disputed that all men have faith. The question is, where and with whom do they do they place their trust.

54 posted on 08/14/2003 11:22:44 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: Corin Stormhands
Closer and closer, with the really touch questions settled. 8~)
55 posted on 08/14/2003 11:24:20 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Corin Stormhands; Wrigley; Dr. Eckleburg
I'd always wanted to be a Greek Expert.

Sounds like I'm only an "r" away! :>)

56 posted on 08/14/2003 11:28:25 AM PDT by xzins
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To: connectthedots
The question is where and with whom do they place their trust.

And why.

Give a look to the site I posted to xzins a few posts back.

It's very informative.

57 posted on 08/14/2003 11:29:47 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Closer and closer, with the really touch questions settled. 8~)

Those touch questions are really tough.

58 posted on 08/14/2003 11:30:06 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Calvin, the brilliant and systematic theologian of the Reformation, put the matter thus: "Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death."

Not what I would call a characteristic of a loving and just God.

59 posted on 08/14/2003 11:43:33 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: connectthedots
The Gospel message is really pretty simple; so simple even a child can understand it.

And all predestined unto life will accept it.....

60 posted on 08/14/2003 1:49:49 PM PDT by Gamecock (L=John 6:35-40, Rom 8:32-34, Heb 9:15)
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