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Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism
Response to: Calvinism- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Geneva ^
| August 13, 2003
| OP
Posted on 08/13/2003 6:04:31 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: connectthedots; xzins; drstevej
Surely you must know of some aspect of his teaching with which you disagree; of is his theology 'perfect'? Well, of course as a Wesleyan, I disagree with some aspects of Calvin's teaching.
However, that was not the point of my post. Nor will I be drawn back into the debate.
To: Corin Stormhands
Let's say something really outrageous like, "God's in control and prayer changes things!"
42
posted on
08/14/2003 8:43:41 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: xzins
"Every time I think you're out, they pull you back in." 8~)
43
posted on
08/14/2003 9:07:06 AM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
(There are very few shades of gray.)
To: drstevej
CTD, this is a ludicrous statement. I disagree with Calvin on many points. I know of no Calvinist, including Calvin, who view his views as without error. I was not referring to you (I've read your church's doctinal statement and found little with which to disagree), but one could hardly dispute the fact that there are those who accept everything Calvin says strictly on faith; i.e., if Calvin said it, it must be true.
Leave your hatred behind.
I don't hate Calvin or Calvinism. I simply think 'Total Depravity' and 'Unconditional Election' as propounded by many Calvinists is not Biblical. I have noted that Calvin was not at the Synod of Dort (he had been dead for many years when that meeting was conducted), so it would not be fair to credit/blame Calvin for its results. I have also stated that many Calvinists seem to have 'out Calvined' Calvin. How is recognizing that some Calvinists have misinterpreted or misconstrued some of Calvin's writing 'hatred'. If anything, it is offering a bit of a defense for Calvin the person and some of his writings.
While I may disagree with Calvin on predestination, and especially unconditional election, at least Calvin admitted that he was troubled by his conclusions concerning predestination as it applies to the eternal salvation or condemnation of individuals. It seems to me that Calvin was not so sure opf himself. How is this exprseeing a 'hatred' for Calvinism?
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
In debates between Reformation Protestants and Arminian neo-Protestants, it is common for Arminians to invoke a peculiar and logically-fallacious syllogism in an effort to deflect attention from the evidentiary insurmountability of the Biblical Case for Reformation Protestantism.
Huh? My head is still spinning.
45
posted on
08/14/2003 9:12:12 AM PDT
by
Conservative til I die
(They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
To: Dr. Eckleburg
I am one of the unfettered in terms of the world, but a bondservant of our Lord Jesus Christ.
No allegiance to either Calv/Arm camp BECAUSE I'm not satisfied with either answer at this point.
46
posted on
08/14/2003 9:14:44 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: Dr. Eckleburg
Besides, what about "God's in control and prayer changes things" is anything you'd disagree with? It was a humorous aside to Corin.
47
posted on
08/14/2003 9:47:07 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: Conservative til I die
It's a good thing one doesn't have to accept or understand Calvinism, or Arminianism to be saved. If so, Heaven would be a fairly lonely place. The Gospel message is really pretty simple; so simple even a child can understand it.
To: connectthedots
That's the truest thing you've said in this entire discussion.
A Calvinist would simply add that if one possesses a true and abiding faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior it is because God graced that person with the gift of faith.
All glory to God.
49
posted on
08/14/2003 10:42:53 AM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
(There are very few shades of gray.)
To: xzins
I thought my "Godfather" reply was "humorous," too. It must be the sun. I'll do better.
The internet is so amazing. Every day I get lost in its vast accessability.
A wonderful site I came across this morning is...
http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/index.html Listed on the church's website is Boettner's "Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" broken down into chapters.
It makes for wonderful reading; very clarifying and edifying on a hot summer afternoon.
After all, what is there to do in New Jersey but wish you were back home?
50
posted on
08/14/2003 10:54:06 AM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
(There are very few shades of gray.)
To: Dr. Eckleburg
right now i'm fast into trying to repair their computer. It shuts down on its own with a 60 second warning....and some blurb about rpc (remote procedure call)
I think it's the current worm.
I tried updating their AV software and it'll get near the end of installing and I get a "rolling back" indicator on the message bar and everything disappears.
Gosh, I wish I was a computer geek.
51
posted on
08/14/2003 11:02:52 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: xzins
Well, take comfort in knowing you're just a regular geek.
52
posted on
08/14/2003 11:03:43 AM PDT
by
Wrigley
To: xzins; Dr. Eckleburg
I think it's the current worm. From your description, it sounds like it. I'm not geeky enough to tell you how to fix it tho.
Dr. E - if we're in agreement regarding New Jersey, can we really be that far off in our theology? ;-)
To: Dr. Eckleburg
That's the truest thing you've said in this entire discussion. I have been consistent about that statement throughout all these threads.
A Calvinist would simply add that if one possesses a true and abiding faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior it is because God graced that person with the gift of faith.
Why 'add'? I have a difficult time understanding that faith is a particular gift to certain individuals. The fact is everyone has faith. Much of our everyday activity would be difficult if not impossible without faith. If you didn't have faith that you would not get into an accident on your way to work, would you go? What about getting on an airplane; that certainly requires some faith that you will arrive safely at your destination, doesn't it?
It cannot be disputed that all men have faith. The question is, where and with whom do they do they place their trust.
To: Corin Stormhands
Closer and closer, with the really touch questions settled. 8~)
55
posted on
08/14/2003 11:24:20 AM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
(There are very few shades of gray.)
To: Corin Stormhands; Wrigley; Dr. Eckleburg
I'd always wanted to be a Greek Expert.
Sounds like I'm only an "r" away! :>)
56
posted on
08/14/2003 11:28:25 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: connectthedots
The question is where and with whom do they place their trust.And why.
Give a look to the site I posted to xzins a few posts back.
It's very informative.
57
posted on
08/14/2003 11:29:47 AM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
(There are very few shades of gray.)
To: Dr. Eckleburg
Closer and closer, with the really touch questions settled. 8~) Those touch questions are really tough.
To: Dr. Eckleburg
Calvin, the brilliant and systematic theologian of the Reformation, put the matter thus: "Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death." Not what I would call a characteristic of a loving and just God.
To: connectthedots
The Gospel message is really pretty simple; so simple even a child can understand it.And all predestined unto life will accept it.....
60
posted on
08/14/2003 1:49:49 PM PDT
by
Gamecock
(L=John 6:35-40, Rom 8:32-34, Heb 9:15)
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