Prelate says politicians who back abortion shouldn't go to Communion

Catholic News Service ^ | July 31, 2003

[NYer]

BOSTON (CNS) -- Boston Archbishop Sean Patrick O'Malley has stated that Catholic politicians who support legal abortion should not receive Communion of their own volition, but the church does not deny Communion to people approaching the altar, presuming they do so in "good faith." The Boston Archdiocese issued a July 29 statement outlining the new archbishop's position in response to a Boston Globe article. A July 27 Globe article discussed a 1992 controversy involving a Catholic politician who backed legal abortion when Archbishop O'Malley headed the Diocese of Fall River, Mass.

[sinkspur]

The persons involved in the New Orleans Archdiocese to whom you refer were then Archbishop Cody (later Cardinal Cody of Chicago) who excommunicated publicly the Catholic boss of Plaquemines Parish (County) just south of New Orleans (one Leander Perez) for his persistent public racism against blacks.

I usually defer to your pre-eminent intellectual prowess, Elk, but, in this case, I must correct.

The Archbishop of New Orleans in question was Joseph Rummel, who preceded Cody. Cody was in office in New Orleans less than eight months before being promoted to Chicago, where he was linked with a local matron for several years in a simmering scandal.

[NYer]

Who purified all those sacramental vessels, the sacristy dishwasher?

There you go again! Here he is using gold vessels in TOTAL respect for the sacrament and you make fun of it. If you have nothing positive to say about this man, then say nothing. You jump on anything and everything to put him or his words or his actions and now his choice of vessels down.

[Land of the Irish]

Excellent point! Thank you for making it.

You guys have gone bonkers. You're trying to justify giving Holy Communion to known, public and unrepentant sinners. Judas was none of the above at the Last Supper. John Kerry is unrepentant; he should be denied Holy Communion in every Catholic church.

[BlackElk]

I want a lot of blood. The more the merrier. It should start with Ted the Swimmer and Ketchupboy who also presumes to publicly attack the pope on the lavender lothario issues. These two (and many others) have a choice: to be Catholic or not. If not, let Archbishop O'Malley and other ordinaries in relevant dioceses formalize the status of these political quislings as apostates.

[sitetest]

Dear BlackElk,

The bishop involved was Archbishop Joseph Rummel. The future Cardinal Cody was the Archbishop-Coadjutor to Archbishop Rummel. Both men signed the letters which threatened excommunication. I believe that Archbishop Rummel alone signed the excommunications of the three miscreants, on April 16, 1962.

Sainted Archbishop Rummel died in 1964.

Sinkspur - was he wrong to publicly humiliate these people??



sitetest

[sinkspur]

I'd still be interested in a response to #28, if it isn't too much trouble.

Rommel did what he felt he had to do. I agree with it, but that was a different time.

I'm really surprised at your reaction. O'Malley's been in office three days, and you expect a man who's never been fire-and-brimstone to suddenly turn fire-and-brimstone.

O'Malley and I are in the same zip code, age-wise. Perhaps when you mellow, you'll gain the perspective he has.

[As you well know...]

To the man with a hammer, everything's a nail.

A hammer can be used to build-up or tear down. In building up the Body of Christ, some things/individuals must be removed from the Church because their dry rot might weaken/infect the green wood.

You have a hammer. O'Malley, I suspect, wants to wield a velvet glove.

I know what I desire sounds so out of place in these times but why can't a Bishop weild a hammer while wearing a velvet glove?

"Your desires" mean you have to somehow have a thirst slaked, which is what I meant by "blood drawn" being for the benefit of the bystanders.

I want to see the Faith taught and protected by Our Shepherds. This needn't be done with a hammer nor need it be done by "drawing blood." It can be accomplished bloodlessly and dispassionately by a Bishop with the right mettle.

You want a little blood, don't you? Come on, you can tell the truth.

I can,occasionally, tell the truth. I do desire a Bishop who does not "massage" the situation. I really do think O'Malley (he is obviously intelligent)could have acccomplished the desires of both of us during his installation AND he could have exhibited charity towards Kerry et al by his resolute refusal to Communicate infamous Catholic Politicians who support abortion.

Being truthful and forceful (that doesn't necessarily mean cruel or harsh)is charity especially when it concerns the Eucharist.

[Land of the Irish]

Answer the question: Where were the sacramental vessels purified? Was it at the altar and who did it? Or do you even care?

You saw the Mass, I did not.

[sinkspur]

You're trying to justify giving Holy Communion to known, public and unrepentant sinners. Judas was none of the above at the Last Supper.

Jesus knew who would condemn him, yet He shared His very Life with a man who would hand Him over. Perhaps we still don't realize the depth of love of the Mind and Heart of Jesus.

I've never, in my life, read a defense of Judas before.

[BlackElk]

Cody also died under federal indictment for income tax evasion for misappropriating archdiocesan funds to give to his longtime secretary (and her son?) whom I believe he brought from New Orleans. Cody died of cancer before his case could come to trial. The case died with him.

Chicago was still better served by Cody than by Bernardin.

If you are really sure it was Rummel and not Cody, I stand corrected but I thought the action against Perez was part of Cody's resume for promotion to Chicago. You are certainly more local to this than I am.

[sinkspur]

Sinkspur - was he wrong to publicly humiliate these people??

Not after ten years.

You expect O'Malley to act in ten minutes.

[sinkspur]

Where were the sacramental vessels purified? Was it at the altar and who did it?

In the sacristy.

[sitetest]

Dear NYer,

"As the expression goes .... 'you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.'"

True enough. And this time, I'm not pleased. But I'm just expressing disappointment, NYer. It's not like I'm running off to join the circus, er,.. the SSPX. ;-)

But even so, no one has made a coherent argument against my own. Not even you. You say, "Cut him slack!"

I do. But that's not an argument which upholds his position. It is an argument to... cut him slack. Like I said, I do. I think he'll do great. But no one has shown me here that he wasn't wrong on Wednesday to permit the criminal Kerry to receive the Blessed Sacrament.

That's my only point.

"*Well, I'm not sure that anyone around here would call me a "trad", least of all the trads*

"No, I wasn't referring to you."

Well, then, I'm sure that the trads are relieved. If I were one of them, I'm sure I'd ruin every party.

"He delivered his homily in 4 languages! Spanish, Portuguese, Creole and the body of it was done in English."

This much, I heard. Here on FR.

"*I hope that this isn't addressed to me. It is an insult. *

"Again, it was not addressed to you."

Thanks. I've taken a little too much grief around here defending Catholic bishops to let that comment slide unremarked.

"All I ask is that everyone give O'Malley a chance to do what he has been brought there to do. His first priority is resolving the 500+ lawsuits pending against the diocese."

Although that is an important priority, I don't really think it is the first. The first priority is for Archbishop O'Malley to make the Archdiocese of Boston a functioning Catholic diocese, again. His first priority is to make it function, and to make it function as a CATHOLIC diocese. The lawsuits are only part of that.

And read my tagline, NYer. It's true. It isn't about blood. Not for all of us. It's about truth. It's about the salvation of these slobs, perps like Kerry and Chappaquiddick Ted. When the BISHOP of their diocese doesn't let them know what's what, why shouldn't they think it's okay for them to endorse murder?


sitetest

[BlackElk]

See #70. I have yielded on the identity of the New Orleans archbishop. Rummel was right to do what he did and the bringing of humiliation upon miscreants is a good idea for a bishop. It is far less painful for the politician than is eternity in hell.

[As you well know...]

You expect O'Malley to act in ten minutes.

I expect all Bishops to act like that in 1 second. If not, they should flee and refuse the Bishopric. If one is not ready to Teach, Rule, and Sanctify right from the get-go, why even accept the vocation?

You are making the ordinary (intentional) sound extraordinary and you are making those who expect the ordinary sound harsh and unreasonable.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

Each one has his gifts.

"I'm really surprised at your reaction. O'Malley's been in office three days, and you expect a man who's never been fire-and-brimstone to suddenly turn fire-and-brimstone."

That isn't what the advance PR said. He was said to have called pro-abort pols in Florida (or perhaps his previous See in Massachusetts) "KKK without the sheets".

That's not fire and brimstone? I'd hate to see what is. He had a reputation as a straight-shooter, someone who doesn't beat around the bushes. Perhaps the advance PR was misleading. I don't know.

But I know that his reputation isn't similar to that of, say, Cardinal McCarrick. Cardinal McCarrick is a schmoozer. He's a politician, himself. That's fine. That's who and what he is.

Each one has his gifts. The Church needs all these gifts. There must be bishops who can schmooze. There must be bishops who can preach fire and brimstone.

There must be hammers. And there must be anvils.

From what I can see, we have a sufficient number of schmoozers and politicos. We need a few more folks like Bishop Bruskewitz, who excommunicates first, and asks questions later.

All right, that's an exaggeration. But it felt good to write it. ;-)


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear sinskpur,

"O'Malley and I are in the same zip code, age-wise. Perhaps when you mellow, you'll gain the perspective he has."

LOL. I have mellowed. You shoulda seen me when I was a kid.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

"'Sinkspur - was he wrong to publicly humiliate these people??'

"Not after ten years.

"You expect O'Malley to act in ten minutes."

Ah, sinkspur, this has been going on since 1973. The two men in question have been adamantly and unalterably pro-abort for decades, and have been unapologetic, even boastful about it for all that time.

And frankly, Archbishop O'Malley had more than ten minutes to act. He'd been appointed weeks ago. ;-)


sitetest

[Land of the Irish]

I've never, in my life, read a defense of Judas before.

No one is defending Judas. My point is, Judas did not betray Christ until he kissed Jesus on His cheek, well after the Last Supper and the Agony in the Garden. At that point, Judas did become a known, public sinner. He never received Holy Communion again.

I suggest you view Mel Gibson's movie, when it comes out, since you're apparently too lazy to read the New Testament.

Then we can talk about Peter,the future first Pope, denying Christ three times and why he was given Holy Communion.

[sitetest]

Dear BlackElk,

Yes, I saw that. But it was interesting that you weren't entirely erroneous in your remembrance. Cardinal Cody was there at that time. Just not as archbishop.


sitetest