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Lawyers eye former pope's blueprint to shield clergy
Boston Herald.com ^ | Wednesday, July 30, 2003 | Robin Washington

Posted on 07/31/2003 8:21:16 PM PDT by Land of the Irish

A Latin document bearing the seal of Pope John XXIII outlined a 1962 Vatican procedure for shielding sexually abusive priests, two lawyers for plaintiffs in cases against the church maintain.

The ``Crimine Solicitationis,'' translated as ``Instructions on proceeding in cases of solicitation,'' states abuse cases are subject to the ``papal secret'' and threatens excommunication against victims who do not come forward within 30 days, according to the document given to authorities by Carmen Durso of Boston and Daniel J. Shea of Houston.

On Monday, Durso presented an English translation to U.S. Attorney Michael Sullivan.

``We gave it to the U.S. Attorney because we wanted him to understand what we mean when we say this has been an ongoing conspiracy,'' he said.

Added Shea, ``It's an instruction manual for a rigged trial for a priest accused of sexual crimes, including crimes against children.''

The document, which Shea said he had been trying to uncover for more than a year and recently received from canon lawyer the Rev. Thomas Doyle, allows victims one month to make their claim known to the supervising bishop.

``The penitent must denounce the accused priest . . . within a month to the (bishop) . . . and the confessor must, burdened seriously in conscience, warn the penitent of this duty,'' the document states.

``The confessor is the accused priest,'' Shea said.

``They're giving the priest the responsibility to tell his victim that the victim has to turn the priest in to the bishop within 30 days. If not, the victim is automatically excommunicated,'' he said, citing another passage.

A Boston Archdiocese spokesman could not be reached for comment and the Herald could not verify yesterday if the document was indeed genuine.

But both lawyers said they believed the Latin original to be authentic.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catch22; catholiclist; popejohnxxiii; sexabuse
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To: Antoninus
Why am I not surprised that sinkspur is an anti-Catholic bigot's type of Catholic?

To you, "anti-Catholic bigots" will always remain anti-Catholic bigots because of the contempt you heap on them.

To me, an "anti-Catholic bigot" can change, if I treat him as Christ would.

101 posted on 08/01/2003 6:59:55 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Boy, watch that knife!'" Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton in "The Searchers")
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To: sinkspur
Sexual abuse was rampant under Pius XII, and, likely under prior popes, but victims were treated just as shabbily.

Argument from lack of evidence is a tactic best left to the feminist and homo-promo agit prop types. Either produce *solid proof* of these false statements, or quit making them.
102 posted on 08/01/2003 7:00:33 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: sinkspur
They were too smart to codify it. But, if you doubt they were less condemnatory, you're delusional.

Once again, argument from lack of evidence. Produce proof, or stop making the claim, deacon.
103 posted on 08/01/2003 7:02:58 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: sinkspur; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Deacon, I agree with much of your post, most to tell the truth. Your implication that the Modernism of the soi-disant "Spirit of Vatican II" is not a major issue, I reject of course. Factually, I believe that horrid sins by hierarchs can be documented at every stage of the history of the Church, starting with that of Judas. The truth is the battle is simple, God versus the Adversary - Good versus Evil.

The enemies of Our Lord will use this, be assured of that. The Enemy who inspired this horrid idea, assuming arguendo that I understand what is implied by this turgid article, will reap a great harvest. All of us who are Catholic will suffer because of this, we will each have an opportunity to bear another Cross.
104 posted on 08/01/2003 7:03:33 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: Antoninus
Either produce *solid proof* of these false statements, or quit making them.

There was no "proof" of sexual abuse in the 80s, until it was pried out of the dioceses by the media and attorneys.

You are welcome to think that clerical pederasty is isolated to the last 40 years.

105 posted on 08/01/2003 7:03:36 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Boy, watch that knife!'" Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton in "The Searchers")
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To: Thorondir; ultima ratio; narses; ninenot; Loyalist; NYer
The Church is filled with her enemies. 95 posted on 08/01/2003 6:40 PM PDT by Thorondir

Wherever you have a situation where grave errors or grotesque mistakes of judgment dominate, this is the fallen human element which is present in the institutional bureaucracy which comprises the Church on earth. Just as an example, any of these cases of covering for sexual abusers among the clergy, these are either errors of judgment or a willing protection of fellow sodomites. Wherever anyone among the clergy acts, speaks, or makes a decision not motivated by the Holy Ghost, by sound Catholic doctrine, or sound prudential judgment, it's not "the Church" which has erred but this particular human being or the group of individuals who just happen also to call themselves priests or bishops. Just because someone is attracted to religious life does not mean necessarily that they are fit for that office.

Where individuals are not following the authentic orthodox Catholic faith (and, sadly, that's a fairly good slice of AmChurch), they are not representing "the Church." When Cardinal Bernardin or Bishop Weakland or Richard McBrien have ever pushed some "liberal" agenda for AmChurch, they have done so as ideological liberals and not as valid representatives of Christ and His Church. Where Bishops have failed to follow Church teaching regarding the fitness of candidates for ordination, they are not representing the authentic Catholic faith.

That some individuals manipulating the Church are members of anti-Catholic societies or are pursuing anti-Catholic agendas is pretty clear. People should not be hoodwinked into thinking that everything happening among the hierarchy or in the adminstrative bureaucracies of AmChurch institutions is coming from the real Catholic Church. Some of these people are not really Catholic. A person dedicated to any ideologically liberal position and who operates from a commitment to that agenda is not a "Catholic." The prelates who covered for sodomites or who are allowing pro-abortion liberal Catholic politicians to receive Holy Communion could not possibly be considered to be representing the Catholic Church in an authentic way. One of the marks of the Church is "holiness." Where the unholy rears its head, the clergy have defected from the Catholic Church at least in a de facto sense. Someone who refuses to defend the Catholic faith, is no longer truly Catholic. This may be tough to swallow, but then we do live in dark times. It is entirely possible for large sections of the institutional Church to be in a state of apostasy.

The American bishops need to decide whether they want to defend the real Catholic faith or join the ash heap of apostasies and heretical movements of past history. If it is more important for them to be photographed enjoying catered dining with celebrities and politicians, don't look to them to represent the real faith. As with other bishops who have been dismissed, God will sort out his own.

106 posted on 08/01/2003 7:06:00 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
A huge BRAVO to you, my friend!
107 posted on 08/01/2003 7:06:18 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: sinkspur; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
God help us if we return to that triumphalistic, clericalist Church. Ritual, and ceremony, and codas were not the mark of The Nazarene.

Your implication Deacon is that the "NEW" Church bears the Mark of "The Nazarene" and that what preceeded did not. Is that really what you mean? Isn't that the LDS view?

108 posted on 08/01/2003 7:07:01 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: sinkspur; Polycarp
Nothing objective. Just the consideration of human nature.

And there you have it. As usual, you're just makin' stuff up. True naivete would be a person believing that homosexual activity and sexual abuse in the priesthood was just as rampant in the 1930s as it was during the 1960s and 70s--during the "sexual revolution." No, more than naive, one would have to be just plain stupid.
109 posted on 08/01/2003 7:08:33 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: sinkspur
Namecalling, brother sinkspur? I would have thought better of you. And I am hardly eaten up with hate. I hate evil, but I do not hate you or your kind. I pray for you daily. I really do.

That does not mean, however, that I will not fight against evel influences. Sorry if that means, by definition, everything you are trying to do to my holy Church.
110 posted on 08/01/2003 7:11:28 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: Polycarp; sinkspur
" Its about a Catholic deacon publicly inviting a rabid anti-Catholic bigot pervert to pile on the Church. I'm not the one who needs counseling."

And his questioning theteachings of the Church, his regular condemnations of the pre-V2 Church (see above and his od belief that Good Friday's Traditional Liturgy "might be" anti-semitic and hatefilled. As an ordained member of the hierarchy, he has an OBLIGATION to defend Holy Mother the Church.Instead he attacks those parts he wants at will and the word warbles and name calls when that is pointed out.
111 posted on 08/01/2003 7:12:11 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: Polycarp; sinkspur
Your pinging him to this thread and encouraging him to continue his rhetoric against Catholics and Catholicism is reprehensible.

I suspect he knows quite well what he's doing....
112 posted on 08/01/2003 7:12:19 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: Thorondir
"Namecalling, brother sinkspur?"

In DeaconSpeak that is called being "Catholic".
113 posted on 08/01/2003 7:13:01 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: narses
Your implication Deacon is that the "NEW" Church bears the Mark of "The Nazarene" and that what preceeded did not.

In its externals, yes it does.

JP II is a perfect model of the simplicity of the servant of the servants of God. His ring is a simple gold band, he wears simple mitres, and plain vestments.

His words do not lord over anybody, and he is humble before every man.

114 posted on 08/01/2003 7:13:25 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Boy, watch that knife!'" Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton in "The Searchers")
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To: saradippity
Thanks, that's the point I tried to make. Nonetheless, the Enemy WILL use this, has already used this here.
115 posted on 08/01/2003 7:14:27 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: PFKEY

62 Reasons Why...
In Conscience, We Cannot Attend the New Mass

Compiled by the priests of the diocese of

CAMPOS, BRAZIL

The
Traditional Mass
The
New Mass
2,000 years of venerable usage
Tried and True
Fabricated in 1969
Experimental
Clearly a Sacrifice
An Altar, A Priest
Clearly a Meal
A Table
Centered on God
Structured for reverence
Centered on Man
Loose structure invites abuses
Completely Catholic
One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Half Protestant
Lacks all Four Marks
Codified at Council of Trent
By a Pope Saint
(Pope St. Pius V)
Contrived
For approval of six
Protestant ministers
Fruitful!
Multitudes of saints, martyrs,
religious vocations!
Barren!
Empty seminaries, decreased
Mass attendance, massive defections!
TRADITIONAL MASS

Never Abrogated by Holy Mother Church!

The New Mass

An Experiment That Failed!


 Note: all quotes followed by an asterix "*" are from the Letter of Cardinals A. Ottaviani and A. Bacci to Pope Paul VI, dated September 25,
1969 enclosing "
A Critical Study of the Novus Ordo Missae."

1. Because the New Mass is not an unequivocal Profession of the Catholic Faith (which the traditional Mass is), it is ambiguous and Protestant. Therefore since we pray as we believe, it follows that we cannot pray with the New Mass in Protestant Fashion and still believe as Catholics!

2. Because the changes were not just slight ones but actually "deal with a fundamental renovation ... a total change ... a new creation." (Msgr. A. Bugnini, co-author of the New Mass)

3. Because the New Mass leads us to think "that truths ... can be changed or ignored without infidelity to that sacred deposit of doctrine to which the Catholic Faith is bound forever." *

4. Because the New Mass represents "a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent" which, in fixing the "canons," provided an "insurmountable barrier to any heresy against the integrity of the Mystery." *

5. Because the difference between the two is not simply one of mere detail or just modification of ceremony, but "all that is of perennial value finds only a minor place (in the New Mass), if it subsists at all." *

6. Because "Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment in the faithful who already show signs of uneasiness and lessening of Faith." *

7. Because in times of confusion such as now, we are guided by the words of our Lord: "By their fruits you shall know them." Fruits of the New Mass are: 30% decrease in Sunday Mass attendance in U.S. (NY Times 5/24/75), 43% decrease in France (Cardinal Marty), 50% decrease in Holland (NY Times 1/5/76).

8. Because "amongst the best of the clergy the practical result (of the New Mass) is an agonizing crisis of conscience..." *

9. Because in less than seven years after the introduction of the New Mass, priests in the world decreased from 413,438 to 243,307 -- almost 50%! (Holy See Statistics)

10. Because "The pastoral reasons adduced to support such a grave break with tradition ... do not seem to us sufficient." *

11. Because the New Mass does not manifest Faith in the Real Presence of our Lord -- the Traditional Mass manifests it unmistakably.

12. Because the New Mass confuses the REAL Presence of Christ in the Eucharist with His MYSTICAL Presence among us (proximating Protestant doctrine).

13. Because the New Mass blurs what ought to be a sharp difference between the HIERARCHIC Priesthood and the common priesthood of the people (as does Protestantism).

14. Because the New Mass favors the heretical theory that it is THE FAITH of the people and not THE WORDS OF THE PRIEST which makes Christ present in the Eucharist.

15. Because the insertion of the Lutheran :"Prayer of the Faithful" in the New Mass follows and puts forth the Protestant error that all the people are priests.

16. Because the New Mass does away with the Confiteor of the priest, makes it collective with the people, thus promoting Luther's refusal to accept the Catholic teaching that the priest is judge, witness and intercessor with God.

17. Because the New Mass gives us to understand that the people concelebrate with the priest -- which is against Catholic theology!

18. Because six Protestant ministers collaborated in making up the New Mass: George, Jasper, Shepherd, Kunneth, Smith and Thurian.

19. Because just as Luther did away with the Offertory -- since it very clearly expressed the sacrificial, propitiatory character of the Mass -- so also the inventors of the New Mass did away with it, reducing it to a simple Preparation of the Gifts.

20. Because enough Catholic theology has been removed that Protestants can, while keeping their antipathy for the True Roman Catholic Church, use the text of the New Mass without difficulty. Protestant Minister Thurian (co-consulter for the 'New Mass' project) said that a fruit of the New mass "will perhaps be that the non-Catholic communities will be ale to celebrate the Lord's Supper using the same prayers as the Catholic Church." (La Croix 4/30/69)

21. Because the narrative manner of the Consecration in the New Mass infers that it is only a memorial and not a true sacrifice (Protestant Thesis)

22. Because by grave omissions, the New Mass leads us to believe that it is only a meal (Protestant doctrine) and not a sacrifice for the remission of sins (Catholic Doctrine).

23. Because the changes such as: table instead of altar; facing people instead of tabernacle; Communion in the hand, etc., emphasize Protestant doctrines (e.g., Mass is only a meal; priest only a president of the assembly; Eucharist is NOT the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, but merely a piece of bread, etc.)

24. Because Protestants themselves have said "the new Catholic Eucharistic prayers have abandoned the false (sic) perspective of sacrifice offered to God." (La Croix 12/10/69)

25. Because we are faced with the dilemma: either we become Protestantized by worshipping with the New Mass, or else we preserve our Catholic Faith by adhering faithfully to the traditional Mass, the "Mass of All Time."

26. Because the New Mass was made in accordance with the Protestant definition of the Mass: "The Lord's Supper or Mass is a sacred synaxis or assembly of the people of God which gathers together under the presidence of the priest to celebrate the memorial of the Lord." (Par. 7 Intro. to the New Missal, defining the New Mass, 4/6/69)

27. Because by means of ambiguity, the New Mass pretends to please Catholics while pleasing Protestants; thus it is "double-tongued" and offensive to God who abhors any kind of hypocrisy: "Cursed be ... the double-tongued for they destroy the peace of many." (Sirach 28:13)

28. Because beautiful, familiar Catholic hymns which have inspired people for centuries, have been thrown out and replaced with new hymns strongly Protestant in sentiment, further deepening the already distinct impression that one is no longer attending a Catholic function.

29. Because the New Mass contains ambiguities subtly favoring heresy, which is more dangerous than if it were clearly heretical since a half-heresy half resembles the Truth!

30. Because Christ has only one Spouse, the Catholic Church, and her worship service cannot also serve religions that are at enmity with her.

31. Because the New Mass follows the format of Cranmer's heretical Anglican Mass, and the methods used to promote it follow precisely the methods of the English heretics.

32. Because Holy Mother Church canonized numerous English Martyrs who were killed because they refused to participate in a Mass such as the New Mass!

33. Because Protestants who once converted to Catholicism are scandalized t to see that the New Mass is the same as the one they attended as Protestants. One of them, Julien Green, asks: "Why did we convert?"

34. Because statistics show a great decrease in conversions to Catholicism following the use of the New Mass. Conversions, which were up to 100,000 a year in the U.S., have decreased to less than 10,000! And the number of people leaving the Church far exceeds those coming in.

35. Because the Traditional Mass has forged many saints. "Innumerable saints have been fed abundantly with the proper piety towards God by it ..." (Pope Paul VI, Const. Apost. Missale Romanum)

36. Because the nature of the New Mass is such as to facilitate profanations of the Holy Eucharist, which occur with a frequency unheard of with the Traditional Mass.

37. Because the New Mass, despite appearances, conveys a New Faith, not the Catholic Faith. It conveys Modernism and follows exactly the tactics of Modernism, using vague terminology in order to insinuate and advance error.

38. Because by introducing optional variations, the New Mass undermines the unity of the liturgy, with each priest liable to deviate as he fancies under the guise of creativity. Disorder inevitably results, accompanied by lack of respect and irreverence.

39. Because many good Catholic theologians, canonists and priests do not accept the New Mass, and affirm that they are unable to celebrate it in good conscience.

40. Because the New Mass has eliminated such things as: genuflections (only three remain), purification of the priests fingers in the chalice, preservation from all profane contact of priest's fingers after Consecration, sacred altar stone and relics, three altar clothes (reduced to one), all of which "only serve to emphasize how outrageously faith in the dogma of the Real Presence is implicitly repudiated." *

41. Because the traditional Mass, enriched and matured by centuries of Sacred Tradition, was codified (not invented) by a Pope who was a saint, Pius V; whereas the New Mass was artificially fabricated by six Protestant ministers and a 33rd degree Freemason, i.e., Msgr. A Bugnini who was later exiled from the Vatican because of his ties with Freemasonry.

42. Because the errors of the New Mass which are accentuated in the vernacular version are even present in the Latin text of the New Mass.

43. Because the New Mass, with its ambiguity and permissiveness, exposes us to the wrath of God by facilitating the risk of invalid consecrations: "Will priests of the near future who have not received the traditional formation, and who rely on the Novus Ordo Missae with the intention of 'doing what the Church does,' consecrate validly? One may be allowed to doubt it!" *

44. Because the abolition of the Traditional Mass recalls the prophecy of Daniel 8:12: "And he was given power against the perpetual sacrifice because of the sins of the people" and the observation of St. Alphonsus de Liguori that because the Mass is the best and most beautiful thing which exists in the Church here below, the devil has always tried by means of heretics to deprive us of it.

45. Because in places where the Traditional Mass is preserved, the Faith and fervor of the people are greater. Whereas the opposite is true where the New Mass reigns (Report on the Mass, Diocese of Campos, ROMA, Buenos Aires #69, 8/81)

46. Because along with the New Mass goes also a new catechism, a new morality, new prayers, new Code of Canon law, new calendar, -- in a word, a NEW CHURCH, a complete revolution from the old. "The liturgical reform ... do not be deceived, this is where the revolution begins." (Msgr. Dwyer, Archbishop of Birmingham, spokesman of Episcopal Synod)

47. Because the intrinsic beauty of the Traditional Mass attracts souls by itself; whereas the New Mass, lacking any attractiveness of its own, has to invent novelties and entertainments in order to appeal to the people.

48. Because the New mass embodies numerous errors condemned by Pope St. Pius V at the Council of Trent (Mass totally in vernacular, words of Consecration spoken aloud, etc. See Condemnation of Jansenist Synod of Pistia), and errors condemned by Pope Pius XII (e.g., altar in form of table. See Mediator Dei).

49. Because the New Mass attempts to transform the Catholic Church into a new, ecumenical church embracing all ideologies and all religions -- right and wrong, truth and error -- a goal long dreamt of by the enemies of the Catholic Church.

50. Because the New Mass, in removing the salutations and final blessing when the priest celebrates alone, shows a denial of, and disbelief in the dogma of the Communion of Saints.

51. Because the altar and tabernacle are now separated, thus marking a division between Christ in His priest-and-Sacrifice-on-the-altar, from Christ in His Real Presence in the tabernacle, "two things which of their very nature, must remain together." (Pius XII)

52. Because the New Mass no longer constitutes a vertical worship between God and man, but rather a horizontal worship between man and man.

53. Because the New Mass, although appearing to conform to the dispositions of Vatican Council II, in reality opposes its instructions, since the Council itself declared its desire to conserve and promote the Traditional Rite.

54. Because the Traditional Latin Mass of Pope St. Pius V has never been legally abrogated and therefore remains a true rite of the Roman Catholic Church by which the faithful may fulfill their Sunday obligation.

55. Because Pope St. Pius V granted a perpetual indult, valid "for always," to celebrate the Traditional Mass freely, licitly, without scruple of conscience, punishment, sentence or censure (Papal Bull "Quo Primum")

56. Because Pope Paul VI, when promulgating the New Mass, himself declared. "The rite ... by itself is NOT a dogmatic definition ..." (11/19/69)

57. Because Pope Paul VI, when asked by Cardinal Heenan of England, if he was abrogating or prohibiting the Tridentine Mass, answered: "It is not our intention to prohibit absolutely the Tridentine Mass."

58. Because "In the Libera Nos of the New Mass, the Blessed Virgin, the Apostles and all the Saints are no longer mentioned; her and their intercession thus no longer asked, even in time of peril." *

59. Because in none of the tree new Eucharistic Prayers (of the New Mass) is there any reference ... to the state of suffering of those who have died, in none the possibility of a particular Memento, thus undermining faith in the redemptive nature of the Sacrifice.*

60. Because we recognize the Holy Father's supreme authority in his universal government of Holy Mother Church, but we know that even this authority cannot impose upon us a practice which is so CLEARLY against the Faith: a Mass that is equivocal and favoring heresy and therefore disagreeable to God.

61. Because, as stated in Vatican Council I, the "Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter, that by His revelation they might make new doctrine, but that by His assistance they might inviolably keep and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of Faith delivered through the Apostles." (Dnz 3070)

62. Because heresy, or whatever clearly favors heresy, cannot be a matter for obedience. Obedience is at the service of Faith and not Faith at the service of obedience! In this foregoing case then, "One must obey God before men." (Acts 5:29) 

 * Letter of Cardinals A. Ottaviani and A. Bacci to Pope Paul VI A Critical Study of the Novus Ordo Missae."




---

116 posted on 08/01/2003 7:15:51 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The prelates who covered for sodomites or who are allowing pro-abortion liberal Catholic politicians to receive Holy Communion could not possibly be considered to be representing the Catholic Church in an authentic way.

Then get yourself ordained, my friend, and you can deny the Eucharist to those of whom you disapprove all day long.

Bishops like O'Malley take their cues from the Holy Father, who denies the Eucharist to no Catholic.

117 posted on 08/01/2003 7:16:30 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Boy, watch that knife!'" Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton in "The Searchers")
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To: ultima ratio
"Gays are the problem--and the liberals who pushed their agenda following Vatican II."

Yep,that's right.

118 posted on 08/01/2003 7:17:08 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Thank you, my friend, for taking the precious time to turn my seven words into the 467 that they were meant to imply.

I rarely have the time (or the skill) to be so eloquent! I have written nine books, but am more of a fighter than a writer. My hat is off to you.
119 posted on 08/01/2003 7:19:04 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: Thorondir
"They are valid, but illicit because they have declared themselves to not be in union with the Vicar of Christ."

The SSPX has declared no such nonsense:

From their homepage:

"The Society of Saint Pius X professes filial devotion and loyalty to Pope John Paul II, the Successor of Saint Peter and the Vicar of Christ. The priests of the Society pray for His Holiness and the local Ordinary at every Mass they celebrate."

"Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Joanne Paulo.
Dominus conservet eum, et vivificet eum,
et beatum faciat eum in terra,
et non tradat eum in animam inimicorum ejus."



120 posted on 08/01/2003 7:19:07 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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