To: xzins; OrthodoxPresbyterian; drstevej; Dr. Eckleburg
Since this world is not through yet, then the eternal God could, because He is eternal/timeless, go back (our perspective) and make something be incorporated in the movie that hadn't yet been there. Again, the question stands...if such a thing occurs, why does God not bring all individuals to salvation? Consider the following:
"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." - Matt 11:21-24 (NKJV)
This line of reasoning you're following removes one of the primary objections often raised to the Calvinist position: that it is unfair or unjust for God to willfully withhold salvation from individuals when it is possible to save them.
186 posted on
12/02/2003 9:37:54 AM PST by
Frumanchu
(mene mene tekel upharsin)
To: Frumanchu
Fru, I hope you don't think you're arguing with me. I agree with you to the extent that God's absolute knowledge makes it absolutely possible for Him to absolutely be aware before creation of everyone who will be saved.
The "woe...bethsaida" verse simply demonstrates that.
Had God chosen to enact a different foreknown reality, Chorazin and Bethsaida could have been saved.
We discussed whether the current reality was the "best" of the possible choices or the ONLY choice as the best.
The bottom line is that it IS the one chosen.
187 posted on
12/02/2003 9:43:24 AM PST by
xzins
(Proud to be Army!)
To: Frumanchu; xzins
Fru, there are over 300 "If-Then" statements in the bible which clearly show that God responds to what men do or say or pray. If the people of Tyre and Sidon had prayed for those miracles that Jesus mentioned, then God very well may have provided the miracles that Jesus spoke of. We don't know why the "if" was not done, nor do we know why the "then" was not done. Neverthless it is clear that Jesus was speaking of the range of infinite possibilities and exhibiting his prior foreknowledge of the events surronding what and why the judgment came upon Tyre and Sidon and why God did not intervene with miracles at that time.
If there is no real "if," (if all is irrevockably and unchangeably predestined by decree) then the Bible verses which speak of "ifs and thens" are not true. They are illusory statements. But in those verses where God uses if-then statements, God's actions are clearly conditioned upon the actions of men. So, unless God was intending to mislead the readers of the Bible, the If-Then statements of God (all 300+ of them) attest to that fact.
Now the question is how do you deal with that fact?
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson