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To: Frumanchu; xzins
Fru, there are over 300 "If-Then" statements in the bible which clearly show that God responds to what men do or say or pray. If the people of Tyre and Sidon had prayed for those miracles that Jesus mentioned, then God very well may have provided the miracles that Jesus spoke of. We don't know why the "if" was not done, nor do we know why the "then" was not done. Neverthless it is clear that Jesus was speaking of the range of infinite possibilities and exhibiting his prior foreknowledge of the events surronding what and why the judgment came upon Tyre and Sidon and why God did not intervene with miracles at that time.

If there is no real "if," (if all is irrevockably and unchangeably predestined by decree) then the Bible verses which speak of "ifs and thens" are not true. They are illusory statements. But in those verses where God uses if-then statements, God's actions are clearly conditioned upon the actions of men. So, unless God was intending to mislead the readers of the Bible, the If-Then statements of God (all 300+ of them) attest to that fact.

Now the question is how do you deal with that fact?

190 posted on 12/02/2003 10:01:31 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins; Frumanchu; Jean Chauvin
If-Then

The Bible is written for human beings to understand and follow. If we had no language, it would be a picture book, telling us the same things -- how to live and what God expects of us.

The greater reality is that God, creator of heaven and earth and all else for all time and beyond, knows EVERYTHING. Always has. All ways; always.

If you blink, He knows it. He fashioned your eyelids; He created the breeze that blows by your face, causing you to squint in the sunlight and BLINK.

If you stifle a sneeze, it isn't because God changed His mind. You were never going to sneeze in the first place.

God bless you (just in case).

193 posted on 12/02/2003 10:12:08 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: P-Marlowe
Conditional statements show a cause and effect relationship. If the cause does not in actuality occur to bring about the effect, it does not follow that the cause and effect relationship itself was therefore not valid. Conditional statements DO NOT of necessity speak to the actual ability or inability of an individual to meet the condition in the first place.

Conditional statements can work for illustrative purposes as well as instructive. The verses above readily demonstrate that. The destruction of Sodom occurred hundreds of years before these statements. It was a done deal, and yet Jesus gave a conditional statement regarding something that had no possibility of happening. It was used illustratively.

If I follow your reasoning regarding conditional statements, then I must necessarily believe that it is actually possible for a man to live a completely sinless life. After all, if one perfectly keeps the Law, one has no need for a Savior.

Conditional statements in and of themselves do not comment on a particular individual's ability/inability to meet the condition. They are simple statements of fact.

194 posted on 12/02/2003 10:26:34 AM PST by Frumanchu (mene mene tekel upharsin)
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Fru, there are over 300 "If-Then" statements in the bible which clearly show that God responds to what men do or say or pray. If the people of Tyre and Sidon had prayed for those miracles that Jesus mentioned, then God very well may have provided the miracles that Jesus spoke of. We don't know why the "if" was not done, nor do we know why the "then" was not done. Neverthless it is clear that Jesus was speaking of the range of infinite possibilities and exhibiting his prior foreknowledge of the events surronding what and why the judgment came upon Tyre and Sidon and why God did not intervene with miracles at that time.

If my granddaughter is hungry I will feed her.

I know she will be hungry , that is no mystery.

214 posted on 12/02/2003 4:05:55 PM PST by RnMomof7
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